Talk:WG/Strategies/SOP/4

Why go there?

 * user:occupyboston4ever Oct 14, 2011 2:35 pm

"Banks are merely the epitome of our the misogynistic, Whiteness-exalting, alienating and dehumanizing parody of capitalism."

Is anyone at Occupy Boston not biased against white men and feels that we should refrain from such remarks?

re: Why go there?

 * user:StargazerA Oct 14, 2011 4:50 pm

I said nothing about any individual white men. Whiteness is a cultural construct that can and has been quantified. Misogyny is a cultural phenomenon that can and has been quantified, and harms men as well as women. By fighting gender policing and oppression we are not only fighting for women, but also all men who don't conform to a hyper-masculine, isolated and emotionally-disconnected stereotype our society demands of them.

We can not and should not avoid these deep-seated problems because it might hurt someone's feelings. These problems hurt a lot more than peoples' feelings.

re: Why go there?

 * user:occupyboston4ever Oct 14, 2011 5:16 pm

"but also all men who don't conform to a hyper-masculine, isolated and emotionally-disconnected stereotype our society demands of them."

This sounds much better than "Misogynistic, Whiteness-exalting". You claim to be sensitive, so be sensitive already.

re: Why go there?

 * user:Stewart76 Oct 15, 2011 9:04 pm

I agree with occupy...this isn't a race issue, it's a class issue.

re: Why go there?

 * user:StargazerA Oct 16, 2011 8:56 am

Banking and bank exploitation is a race issue: http://thesocietypages.org/colorline/2009/06/08/systemic-racism-in-banking-the-wells-fargo-case/

The 1% is overwhelmingly White: http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/97/07/9707jw.pdf

These things aren't coincidences.

If we don't confront the systematic, intersecting forms of cultural discrimination, our statement will not challenge the problems facing most of the 99%. If we aren't explicit about these things, we are complicit in perpetuating them. Color blindness is a form of racism, because it is willfully ignoring the currently-present racism.

I am sorry that I don't have a non-threatening way to phrase these things, but the truth is it is threatening. I do expect people to have faith that even without an unfair advantage they will still have enough, and I am asking this of people who don't have enough right now. But the only alternative is to perpetuate the status quo, only with different aggressive privileged people who are willing to abuse their privilege on top.

We can't erase racism and sexism and heterosexism by pretending they don't exist.

re: Why go there?

 * user:http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/97/07/9707jw.pdf

In principle I share many of thes frustrations, but in form I think it's best to model the attitudes and behaviors rather than pointing fingers. I sympathize with your impatience at the idea of demurring to the status quo, but we can hardly demand a more cooperative and inclusive culture unless we can demonstrate it in word and deed.

doesn't this define small business?

 * user:mcktimo Oct 15, 2011 10:14 am

We must have a culture and a system for the distribution of goods and services that encourages, values and rewards cooperation, sharing of knowledge, experimentation, constructive creation, sufficiency and self-autonomy.