Talk:WG/Strategies/Ideas/Student Debt

This Self Serving Cause will drain support

 * user:WayneKleinPhD Oct 16, 2011 6:29 pm

I've heard negative criticisms in the media which focus on this demand.
 * 1) 1 If you went to an expensive private school - what were you thinking.


 * 1) 2 Is it just for the one who received the education to get a bailout paid for with the taxes of the high school graduate?


 * 1) 3 I think there is justification for the argument that those who runs up debt trying to better themselves should have as much right to declare bankruptcy as the guy who runs up debts buying toys and taking vacations they can't afford. But can anyone really seriously say that this is so pressing any issue for so many people that it demands the expenditure of political capital??

re: This Self Serving Cause will drain support

 * user:occupyboston4ever Oct 16, 2011 8:00 pm

I have heard the criticisms in the media also. I believe this movement can rise above such criticism if it were to get its argument straight. Much of the issue these protesters face is looming student debt at a time of high unemployment. There is no doubt the the government and the federal reserve have highly encouraged the accumulation of student debt, yet has failed to deliver a functioning job market. I believe this entitles students to demand debt relief. I say this having paid tuition out of my own pocket by working through college, so this taxpayer is willing to foot the bill.

I do not believe individuals who have taken out personal debt should get the same relief. There is no public responsibility for acquiring personal possessions as there is for education.

I see your point about declaring bankruptcy. Under bankruptcy student loan debt is not forgiven. There are arguments in favor of this practice, yet it makes no sense that other debts may be written off.

re: This Self Serving Cause will drain support

 * user:reyraton Oct 17, 2011 4:15 am

It's $1T in self-acquired investment costs that will, for at least 3/4 of people, result in dramatic returns on investment.

The issue is employment, not debt.

re: This Self Serving Cause will drain support

 * user:StargazerA Oct 17, 2011 9:32 am

Since this revolution probably wouldn't be happening if it were for the large number of debt-ridden youth who can't find jobs, I certainly think it is important enough to concern ourselves with.

The other major issue is outstanding housing debt, which is even more self-serving. College is not longer optional for many if not most desirable careers, whereas renting was, for a long period, cheaper than buying a house even after the massive government subsidy of the rich through the mortgage interest tax deduction.

The problem isn't just private schools, either. $30,000 in debt from an in-state state school is not uncommon, particularly with unemployment as high as it is and the difficulty in getting side employment.

We need fairer bankruptcy laws all around, ones that aren't written by the creditors. We also need available, accessible and cheap higher education: it will lead to innovation, entrepreneurship, an educated work force and GDP growth. Education spending benefits the nation as a whole, not just those who go to college.

These aren't unimportant side-issues. If it weren't for student debt the current unemployment among graduates wouldn't be as devastating. They'd move back in with their parents until the economy picked up again. Because of debt, that isn't an option: they are loosing money every minute they are out of work. Their credit is being ruined as we speak, which will hobble real estate markets for years to come.

They deserve our help. It's not even that hard: if we want college funding to be indentured servitude we should just make it explicit and charge some percentage of earnings for the first 15 or 30 years after graduation. If we don't, we need to stop funding it through loans and start funding higher education through the same progressive tax system as other socially-beneficial programs.

re: This Self Serving Cause will drain support

 * user:reyraton Thursday, 3:42 pm

I think partial forgiveness through bankruptcy proceedings is a decent middle ground, but total forgiveness for a debt incurred as an investment with full awareness of costs is unpalatable.

I mean, if the economy was booming I don't think this would be an issue, would it? With that in mind, I think employment is the real driver of this issue.

Moving forward, I think that addressing and subsidizing future education costs is worth drafting a proposal over, but already-incurred costs doesn't resonate with me...

...but I'm just one dude. :)

Where is the money?

 * user:OccupyReality Oct 16, 2011 7:27 am

It is one thing to work towards making existing institutions more affordable. I agree it costs way too much to go to college these days.

As far as making higher education a right, I have three comments: - the money isn't there, and even in Europe, where heavy taxes supported this, it's on the chopping block, and we are in a deep recession - not everyone needs a college education - not everyone is cut out for a college education

re: Where is the money?

 * user:reyraton Oct 17, 2011 4:16 am

An education is necessary these days, but I think, given the cash reality, that the above is correct.

Work on improving the K-12 system is a better, cheaper use of money.

Solutions beyond debt

 * user:reyraton Oct 16, 2011 3:56 am

I'm wary of completely writing off student debt; it's $1T and the result of agreements made by people who could presumably add. ARM mortgages could be conceptualized as tricky and obscure, but student debt isn't like that.

I feel like the root cause is the unemployment rate, not magnitude of debt.