Winterization and Fire Safety: Difference between revisions

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(→‎Shelter: removed language about hay; added addl info to clarify where various proposals have problems.)
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== Shelter ==
== Shelter ==
Current solutions we are working to implement:
*A proposal was passed to buy several large military-grade tents for a number of functions, including the Kitchen, Medical, and Logistics. We are looking for local sources (to save on shipping).


Information we need:
Information we need:
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Structure Solutions:
Structure Solutions:


*Floors made with a layer of hay with plywood or tarps over it. This will allow water to flow under the floor. PROBLEM: Hay is a fire hazard.
*Floors made with with plywood or tarps over it. This will allow water to flow under the floor.  
*Floors made with pallets, with plywood over top. Put tents up on these.
*Floors made with pallets, with plywood over top. Put tents up on these. Do NOT stuff with straw; this is a fire hazard! Sealing the ends of the pallets, to stop cold air constantly flowing through, needs to be done.
*Large military issue tents - can be used for kitchen, other working groups, group sleeping (need to provide separate sleeping areas based on gender). Could put small tents inside larger tents. Look for NSN number for good, 4-season tents
*Could put small tents inside larger tents. Look for NSN number for good, 4-season tents
*Cots - get people off the ground while sleeping. What about hammocks?
*Cots - get people off the ground while sleeping. What about hammocks? Problem with either is that these do not insulate you from cold air under you; you'd need some sort of non-compacting insulation (foam?) under your sleeping bag.
*Shelters can be weighted down with sandbags, buckets filled with concrete, containers filled with water.
*Shelters can be weighted down with sandbags, buckets filled with concrete, containers filled with water.
*Kitchen tent needs to be fully enclosed - not just warmth but to help keep rodents out.
*Little well insulated sleeping pods, with wheels, like a tiny house on wheels. Not a "structure" but a sleeping-barrow. example: [[http://karmacarpentry.com/WoodsyWagon.png]] There is one in camp now that holds 1 person that is working well.
*Little well insulated sleeping pods .. with wheels .. tiny house on wheels .. not a "structure" but a sleeping-barrow. example: [[http://karmacarpentry.com/WoodsyWagon.png]]
*Inflatable structures. Custom made or purchased; dead air space can provide insulation. Flexible, not rigid structures, may avoid troubles with authorities, can be combined with other ideas, such as wheeled platforms. Potential problem: may need constant inflation or frequent reinflation, which requires electricity.
*Inflatable structures... custom made or purchased .. dead air space can provide insulation .. flexible, not rigid structures, may avoid troubles with authorities, can be combined with other ideas, such as wheeled platforms.


Heat and Fire Solutions
Heat and Fire Solutions
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*DO NOT let trash build up! Especially paper, cardboard (i.e. signs), fabric.
*DO NOT let trash build up! Especially paper, cardboard (i.e. signs), fabric.
*NO SMOKING NEAR COMBUSTIBLES.
*NO SMOKING NEAR COMBUSTIBLES.
*Hot water bottles. The bags from inside the "box of joe" you get at coffee shops makes a great hot water bottle. They can be refilled with water and heated by laying them over the hot (REALLY HOT, BE CAREFUL) manhole cover.
*Heat: "catalytic propane heaters" do NOT have open flames and provide heat. I think the fire department warned against open flames. Well catalytic may be our answer.
*Heat: "catalytic propane heaters" do NOT have open flames and provide heat. I think the fire department warned against open flames. Well catalytic may be our answer.
*Carbon monoxide detectors are cheap and will protect against CO poisoning. This will satisfy the fire department, and will prevent any of us from dying, both of which are good.
*Carbon monoxide detectors are cheap and will protect against CO poisoning. This will satisfy the fire department, and will prevent any of us from dying, both of which are good.

Revision as of 12:11, 2 November 2011

This is the main page for Winterization and Fire Safety issues.

Announcements

Emergency Items 10/28

We have an email list: Signup Form

There are 3 primary concerns for winter:

  • People - keeping us warm (clothing, etc.)
  • Shelter - needs to be warm and sturdy (resist snow load, wind, etc.)
  • Safety - fire and carbon monoxide, snow removal, preventing slipping on ice, etc.

People

Important cold weather practices

Information we need:

  • How many people in camp need better warm clothing?
  • What do they need? Socks? Undershirts? Pant layers? Shoes? Mittens, hats, etc.?

Clothing Solutions:

  • Polypropylene layers under regular clothing. Look for items with a NSN number (military issue). Look for wool and thermals underwear too.
  • Waterproof shoes/boots. Wear boots LARGER than your normal size - more room for extra socks, extra space = insulation, ability to move toes and improve circulation.
  • Space blankets hooded and regular all weather blankets NASA TECH wind H2O reflect 90%of body heat, 5x7 hooded: Examples here; also emergency blankets and bags

Keeping warm while sitting or lying down:

  • Layers of corrugated cardboard, or even newspapers. Wrap in plastic to keep it from getting wet and then frozen.
  • Foil bubble home insulation. Regular bubblewrap, even.
  • Foam sheets or blocks (styrofoam).

Additional solutions:

  • Hot beverages available
  • Hot food
  • Warming stations .. possibly use the hot manhole covers for a "sauna" room.
  • We can also use solar heat gain for daytime comfort. Clear plastic roofs with windbreaking sides make for good comfort on sunny days.

Here is some winter advice from Vinay Gupta who designed the hexayurts. Interesting strategy? [1]

Shelter

Current solutions we are working to implement:

  • A proposal was passed to buy several large military-grade tents for a number of functions, including the Kitchen, Medical, and Logistics. We are looking for local sources (to save on shipping).

Information we need:

  • How many people intend to camp through the winter?
  • What ordinances do we need to keep in mind?
  • What are the costs to build or buy shelters?
  • If we are building, do we have enough people to do that?
  • What is the process for shelters needing construction?

Concerns:

  • Will it hold up in strong winds?
  • Will it keep water out, both on top/sides and floor?
  • How do we hold tents down - can't drive stakes very deeply in the ground here; can't drive stakes through the paved areas at all.
  • City may not allow tents larger than 10x10 without a permit
  • Can we provide any kind of safe heat source (don't want open flame)?
  • Fire Department does not want open flame - risk of fire, and is concerned about carbon monoxide poisoning as well.

Structure Solutions:

  • Floors made with with plywood or tarps over it. This will allow water to flow under the floor.
  • Floors made with pallets, with plywood over top. Put tents up on these. Do NOT stuff with straw; this is a fire hazard! Sealing the ends of the pallets, to stop cold air constantly flowing through, needs to be done.
  • Could put small tents inside larger tents. Look for NSN number for good, 4-season tents
  • Cots - get people off the ground while sleeping. What about hammocks? Problem with either is that these do not insulate you from cold air under you; you'd need some sort of non-compacting insulation (foam?) under your sleeping bag.
  • Shelters can be weighted down with sandbags, buckets filled with concrete, containers filled with water.
  • Little well insulated sleeping pods, with wheels, like a tiny house on wheels. Not a "structure" but a sleeping-barrow. example: [[2]] There is one in camp now that holds 1 person that is working well.
  • Inflatable structures. Custom made or purchased; dead air space can provide insulation. Flexible, not rigid structures, may avoid troubles with authorities, can be combined with other ideas, such as wheeled platforms. Potential problem: may need constant inflation or frequent reinflation, which requires electricity.

Heat and Fire Solutions

  • DO NOT let trash build up! Especially paper, cardboard (i.e. signs), fabric.
  • NO SMOKING NEAR COMBUSTIBLES.
  • Hot water bottles. The bags from inside the "box of joe" you get at coffee shops makes a great hot water bottle. They can be refilled with water and heated by laying them over the hot (REALLY HOT, BE CAREFUL) manhole cover.
  • Heat: "catalytic propane heaters" do NOT have open flames and provide heat. I think the fire department warned against open flames. Well catalytic may be our answer.
  • Carbon monoxide detectors are cheap and will protect against CO poisoning. This will satisfy the fire department, and will prevent any of us from dying, both of which are good.

Safety

  • Where will all the snow go?
  • Removing snow from gravel path could be special challenge; not so easy to shovel.
  • Paths made of pallets and plywood will probably be slippery. What can we use instead of wooden surfaces?

Resources

Please update this with URLs as appropriate

Meeting Minutes

Foam Sheets

Rigid board foam could be good to have between sleeping (or sitting) people and the ground.

Insulation Comparison
Foam Name R-value/inch absorbs water? insulates when wet? flamable? edible by rats / bugs? edible by mold? Description
EPS (Expanded Polystyrene) 4--5 some ?? Y Y N White beadboard, looks like rigid packaging foam
XPS (Extruded Polystyrene) 5 N Y Y Y N Smooth, blue pink or other colors depending on manufacturer
PIR (polyisocyanurate) 6 lots ?? firerated available Y N pale yellow, with facers usually of aluminum foil

Further Links & Ideas

Shelter

Hot Food and Beverage

Materials

Based on: Winterization at wikispaces


Prices/links (sorry don't know where to put this):

rddusa.com GP tent 16x32' = $980

Armytents.com GP 16x32 = 795

(have more places to check prices up and will put hose up soon if they are better)

hqcompany.com Boots = 30

gr8gear.com Boots = 20

Amazon.com Poly pro bottom = 17+ pp top = 17+ Mil Sleep system= 108+

majorsurplus.com mummy bag= 40 bivy cover= 60 thermal t+b= 22 tent 17' 10 person= 500 18x32= 800

ebay Mil sleep system= 80+

campmore.com Eureka wild basin 0 degree bag= 60

Military iso mat (sleeping mat)= 10 (available at many places at that price)

I put similar items at various prices because we may not be able to get the full amount we need from one site. I'll look into the links John posted tomorrow.

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