Talk:WG/Strategies/Road Map

Is this from OWS??

user:Stewart76 Oct 16, 2011 6:37 pm

Is this statement from OWS (meaning this is an official proposal from them, that they wrote and approved)? Or was this written someone in OB? Was the occupy Madison statement officially from them?

re: Is this from OWS??

user:AriaLItthous Wednesday, 3:56 pm

No, my mistake. I understood Noah's proposal as to allow us to speak for all the Occupations which I termed OWS.

Comments to Roadmap

user:terrawiki Oct 14, 2011 1:34 pm

1. Jobs bill. While I'm pretty well in favor with most of the bill, I think we need to take back our ability to print money before we borrow more money. Also, if our work is to be sustainable over the next say 100 years, I think we have to avoid mentioning specific legislation that has an expiration date.

2. All levels of education. I'd also not say "all levels" for education. If you did, and this passed, I'd become a permanent student. And I'm not sure you could afford the courses that I'd want to take.

3. Repealing all anti-union legislation seems to set up the opportunity for yet a different kind of dictatorship. Have you ever been part of a union? And tried to get a certain position that so and so's brother has?

re: Comments to Roadmap

user:bluejaysg Oct 14, 2011 5:51 pm

I agree with the roadmap, but the elephant in the room is our dependence on fossil fuels. I think the roadmap has to mention getting off coal (for example, if corporations are persons, then Massey Energy should be in court defending itself against 29 counts of murder) and the devastation of mountaintop removal. (Remember the break in the flyash dam?) We need to quit borrowing money to buy fossil fuels from the middle east that we then burn up, polluting our atmosphere. The government needs to quit subsidizing this horrendous industry. And our dependence on fossil fuels has led to these endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not sure how to word this to be at the same level as the principles in the roadmap, because it does fit in the goal of healthy ecosystems, it's just that it's such a dominant poison in our political and economic system as well as our environment, that I think it has to surface at the roadmap level.

re: Comments to Roadmap

user:AriaLItthous Oct 16, 2011 1:24 pm

This is covered in goal #1 and #3 and in rewriting the tax code.

The decision to include the Obama jobs bill is strategic, to gather adherents, ditto unions.

Change to goal #3.

user:AriaLItthous Oct 14, 2011 5:30 pm

3. All the Earth's ecosystems are healthy.

re: Change to goal #3.

user:terrawiki Oct 14, 2011 9:19 pm

i like it.

re: Change to goal #3.

user:terrawiki Oct 14, 2011 9:19 pm

oops. what about the festering nuclear waste? that's already in the ground?

re: Change to goal #3.

user:AriaLItthous Oct 15, 2011 2:43 am

We can bring that up after the process starts.

This is a democratic party ticket

user:occupyboston4ever Oct 14, 2011 11:34 am

This statement may speak for the majority of OWS or OB protesters, but due to its inclusion of several partisan issues, such as health care and education through all levels and tax reform, it will fall short of drawing a movement of the 99% rather the 45% that is the democratic party. If this is the best this movement can do to act toward unity, we have gained nothing from this experience.

re: This is a democratic party ticket

user:StargazerA Oct 14, 2011 1:46 pm

If education is a partisan issue, the problem is the partisans, not that we shouldn't be educating our citizens. If health care is a partisan issue, it is only because the 1% has convinced people that if everyone got healthcare they'd loose theirs when that couldn't be further from the truth. We have not endorsed any specific strategy to achieve these aims, and there are both liberal and conservative mechanisms to get to fairer outcomes. I can't think of a single ideological movement that thinks the tax system as it currently stands is ideal, especially since so much of it is hidden government spending on corporate welfare. Progressive taxation may be partisan, but since I believe it is a means to an end (decreased income inequality) I do think the movement would be open to other mechanisms to decrease income inequality.

However, I believe Occupy Boston does refute any political ideology that promotes social darwinism, that supports increased income inequality or believes that the unemployed, the homeless, the destitute and the hopeless have earned and deserve their pain. Otherwise we'd be sitting at home, eating bonbons and laughing at the people needlessly suffering.

16 points cover all the bases

user:AriaLItthous Oct 14, 2011 5:29 pm

There are some partisan points, among many others. If the democa-pubs are advocating proportional representation, I'll eat my hat.

re: This is a democratic party ticket

user:terrawiki Oct 14, 2011 9:21 pm

Stargazer...which parts are too D? Sometimes I don't notice...

I agree with you that a specific strategy can NOT be endorsed. Too many tangles of conflicts. Also, a specific strategy has an expiration date...when a better strategy comes along. So it's better just to demand goals. Measured results. And then suggest strategies. You'd be surprised how well it works...

Latest Version of Roadmap

Hey, check out the main page. This is what the google group is thinking. I'll try to get them over here. Your thoughts please. DC

Strong Concerns and Objections

Why is a second statement of purpose being considered? Why don't we just move to specific issues for discussions and proposals? I think this statement is redundant and unnecessary. -pcovery

The Mission Statement and Goals provide a framework for objectives, methods, strategies and tactics. -Aria

It would be nice if they did, but the text I see on the Page so far does nothing like that. Could you spell out exactly how any methods, strategies or tactics are framed by the text there? While you're at it, tell me one tangible objective that is within the control of the group or even the 99%. I don't think we do ourselves any favors by being vague or unrealistic. - pcovery

These 17 objectives and methods that would help us achieve goals 1-4; were ditched as too specific and divisive. I disagreed. Remember this goes to external community.

5. The immediate creation of a National Single Payer Non-Profit Healthcare System 6. The End of Corporate Personhood. 7. The implementation of a “cradle to grave” social safety net. 8. To end the assault on workers' rights and repeal of all anti-union laws. 9. To support the end of institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia and attacks on immigrants. 10. To end the current war 11. To vow to not engage in war. 12. To facilitate the creation of a new tax code, written from scratch, that supports our goals 13. To pass the Obama jobs bill. 14. To extend the public education system through all levels. 15. To direct government spending away from the military and towards social programs. 16. To convene a Constitutional Convention to implement Proportional Representation 17. Restoration of the commons 18. Reparation for damage done.

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These are not methods, strategies or tactics. I don't consider them useful objectives, either, because none of them is achievable except for #10 & 13. Again, I think Occupy Boston would lose support by proposing these kinds of sophomoric statements. We're better off digging into a small number of actual policy priorities. -pcovery

Democracy has existed in the US, yet.

Please edit the line with the phrase "democratic channels", as we've yet to have a democracy in the United States. A democracy would have all human people treated equally and we've never had that. We've always had a feudal lord system wherein we determined who was in the lording class by wealth and those wealthy convinced a huge subset of the subservient class to support them by creating the illusion that we could be one of them if we had the right skin color.

The fact that black persons were considered 3/5 of a person when our constitution was written and that women didn't have the right to vote until the 20th century and that the prison industrial system has been designed to insure that people of color remain tyrannically oppressed makes it clear that we've yet to have an actual democracy.

If you've been to a GA then you know that even direct democracy is imperfect. Defining the past is pointless. Let's get going.