Talk:Green Rainbow Party Platform Working Group

Thanks for setting up discussion page, Brian. I'm kind of confused. Most of the discussions are empty. I respond here about more than preface, because I see no entries on what is noted as {edit} by main text.

It takes a lot of steps to do this, but seems better than obscuring flow of text by entering comments on text in [].

Regarding the preamble, my intent was that it carry the idea of three realms of human endeavor and measures relevant to a political party in those realms. Following, I post original paragraph from preface and comments:

Where social relations are blighted by inequality, lack of opportunity and violence, we seek means to enable all to thrive together in peace [Joanna: Who added 'together in peace'? That carries the idea away from what government can do to help all to thrive, aside from reforming law enforcement, maybe. The intro can't have many specifics or it loses its pace.] [BrianC: following phrase doesn't connect with preceding phrase], shifting to revenues from taxing resource use and accumulated wealth. taxing accumulated wealth. [Joanna: If we think gov't has role in equalizing income and enriching opportunity, there is need for revenues to do it with, but maybe we can leave that unsaid. Alternative sentence: "WHERE SOCIAL RELATIONS ARE BLIGHTED BY INEQUALITY, ALIENATION, AND VIOLENCE, WE SEEK MEANS TO ENABLE ALL TO THRIVE."] [BrianC: the phrase 'taxing accumulated wealth' isn't specific enough, as I see it. We should shift taxes from wages and sales to polluting resource use, specifically. [Joanna: Specific types of taxation should go in body of text under 'rational taxation'.] [Brian: Let's leave taxation out of this paragraph on peace and equality]. [Joanna: This paragraph was not intended to be about peace and equality, but about what government can do for the society to which it answers.]

See my note at end of current text + Brian's note, looking for 3 way division: "[Joanna note: I withdraw the alternative organization I had suggested, hoping that preface can carry the ideas of ecological wisdom, respect for diversity, etc. being relevant to everything, with special attention to government, economy, and society. I tried to streamline preface. Right now, links and comments need to be digested to enable flow.] [BrianC: One of the decisions we did come to was to use the three-part division of the platform when writing. I realize, with curiousity, that we're neglecting that decision.]"

Joanna : Do you see how we could group paragraphs under three categories. I gave up trying to, but don't think that we should use 10 Vaules or topic summaries, such as you supplied.

Regarding "NOTES to Wiki participants"

When it comes to commenting on wiki articles, I think you try the `Discussion' tab, like this :)

Talk_pages gives an outline of how discussion pages work, but for the most part, it's just like editing any other wiki page.

It's a good idea to end your comments with four tildes "~~~~" (sans quotes). This will get converted into a wiki signature.

srevilak (talk) 11:36, 26 August 2012 (EDT)

Preamble, Endorsing National

[Joanna: no qualification?] [Danny: I think we need to discuss this more. For example, does this mean if the GPUS platform gets amended that we automaticallly endorse?] [Terra: Occupy groups, in my observation] tend to endorse "actions" or "principles", rather than groups, for this very reason...that groups tend to change what they stand for over time without notifying you, so that you can pull your support, if you don't like the change.][At our 8/26 meeting, there seemed to be agreement that it would be o.k. to step back from a formal endorsement of the GPUS platform and instead say something to the effect that we agree with the values espoused in the GPUS platform. I will be making an edit accordingly. Feel free to revise.]

Preamble, Mentioning Commons in Preamble

[Terra: do we want to say something about wanting a "strong [commons]"?] [Joanna: Why here?] [T: It's core to the root of what I think David's point is...the illegal government subjugating the rights of humans and eco-systems to profit]

Preamble, Encouraging local economies

DISCUSSION: [Issues with Favoring Locally Based Economies]

Preamble, Peace

 [Joanna: Who added 'together in peace'? That carries the idea away from what government can do to help all to thrive, aside from reforming law enforcement, maybe.  The intro can't have many specifics or it loses its pace.]   [BrianC: following phrase doesn't connect with preceding phrase][Danny: I didn't add it but I think placing of 'peace' is appropriate; it relates to mention of 'violence' 8 words earlier.],

Preamble, Taxation, Accumulated Wealth

[Joanna: If we think gov't has role in equalizing income and enriching opportunity, there is need for revenues to do it with, but maybe we can leave that unsaid. Alternative sentence: "WHERE SOCIAL RELATIONS ARE BLIGHTED BY INEQUALITY, ALIENATION, AND VIOLENCE [changed back to unfairness?], WE SEEK TO BUILD HEALTHY COMMUNITIES WHERE ALL MAY THRIVE."]

[BrianC: the phrase 'taxing accumulated wealth' isn't specific enough, as I see it. We should shift taxes from wages and sales to polluting resource use, specifically. [Joanna: Specific types of taxation should go in body of text under 'rational taxation'.] [Brian: Let's leave taxation out of this paragraph on peace and equality]. [Joanna: This paragraph was not intended to be about peace and equality, but about what government can do for society to which it answers.] [Danny: I think that 'peace' and taking care of the vulnerable need to be a part of the preamble. 'A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.' The concept of 'self reliance' does not make sense to the most vulnerable: prisoners, many hospital patients, etc.] BrianC: I vote we wait to mention taxation until after the preamble, and so urge us to delete from 'Shift... through the line.

Preamble, Fairness

DISCUSSION:[Issues with Using the Words "Fairness" and "Unfairness"] [ Joanna: unfairness gone.] CLOSED DISCUSSION

three realms of wealth

John Michael Greer, in his _Wealth of Nature_, separated things of value into three groups: 1) Natural Capital: Things we value that nature provided. 2) Human-created Capital: Things we value that we made. 3) Financial Capital: Promises and other imaginary forms of paper wealth. He shows how the first is plundered and the last, inflated beyond any ability to repay, and how just measuring overall wealth obscures flows between these three forms of capital. Is this anything we want to address?