WB/OBIT/LOGS/19 October Meeting Raw IRC Log

20:53:09@brandon: remote-ross: do you have an agenda for this meeting?
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20:58:05 MK|Home: I'd like to add requirements gathering from other working groups if it isn't already there
20:59:40@brandon: I have a couple things I'd like to be on
21:01:08 MK|Home: I'm adding a minutes page to the wiki
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21:01:26@brandon: MK|Home: do you want to take on that for this meeting?
21:01:26 MK|Home: afk 3 mins
21:01:34 MK|Home: Yes I can do minutes
21:01:37@brandon: ok
21:02:18@brandon: who's here
21:02:32 farmerbob: here
21:02:42 OccupyBoston158: hi
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21:03:06 siegfail: Hi!
21:03:12@brandon: siegfail: Hi
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21:03:20@brandon: gregg: you here?
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21:04:12 MK|Home: ok back
21:04:30 mcktimo: hi
21:04:40@brandon: mcktimo: hi
21:04:40 MK|Home: Should I use the mediawiki?
21:04:46 MK|Home: Hi all!
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21:04:58 Theresa: Hi All
21:05:01@brandon: MK|Home: yes
21:05:03 MK|Home: or is "What are we doing with the wikis?" on the agenda?
21:05:20 lovecrime|mobile: Thats always on
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21:05:54@brandon: I think I'm the only one with an actual agenda
21:05:56 MK|Home: OK, can someone give me access to wiki.occupyboston.com?
21:06:24@brandon: MK|Home: it's .org
21:06:45 MK|Home: Brandon: yar. I see!
21:07:00@brandon: ok, here are the things I'd like to talk about
21:07:07@brandon: 1) how we schedule meetings
21:07:16@brandon: 2) scheduling the wiki transition
21:07:40@brandon: does anybody have any other points to cover?
21:08:13 MK|Home: 3) Coordinating with other groups
21:08:23 siegfail|onsite: Let me change hats and offer something
21:08:40--- siegfail|onsite is now known as siegfail|Logistics
21:09:21 siegfail|Logistics: Logistics could use a ticket system for our duties but I don't know how to set one up.
21:09:37@brandon: 4) ticket system
21:09:45@brandon: anything else?
21:09:48 siegfail|Logistics: There have been suggestions and discussion on the list.
21:09:54 siegfail|Logistics: Cool.
21:09:55 mcktimo: I don't think we should surprise anyone. Could there be an announcement on the wikispace one to let people know what's coming
21:10:12@brandon: mcktimo: we'll get to that
21:10:19@brandon: first, does anybody have any more agenda items?
21:10:48@brandon: ok
21:10:54@brandon: lets start with 1 then.
21:11:11@brandon: There's been some confusing about meeting times and places, as well as a disconnect between irc and the mailing list
21:11:19@brandon: confusion*
21:11:34 MK|Home: Whats the disconnect?
21:12:08 farmerbob: tonight, for example, we decided to meet in irc rather than at dewey on sort of short notice.
21:12:11@brandon: it seems like some people prefer to communicate on the ML, and others on IRC, which is fine.  except when a meeting time is proposed on irc it doesn't get to the ML right away and vice versa
21:13:01@brandon: I'd like to set a regular meeting time, but I know a lot of people aren't here.
21:13:27 Theresa: I can only be involved remotely, but 9pm is a good time for me
21:13:40 MK|Home: I could do regular IRC meetings in the evenings as well
21:14:01 lovecrime|mobile: Im on my way to mtg. Will take a minute to boot netbook
21:14:06 Theresa: I can be a bit flexible on time though
21:14:59@brandon: Here's my temporary solution proposal:
21:15:33@brandon: whenever a time for a meeting is proposed it should be simultaneously posted to the ML, IRC, and on the wiki (the new one)
21:16:30 farmerbob: +1
21:16:38 Theresa: +1
21:16:41 MK|Home: +1 as well
21:17:06 siegfail|Logistics: +1
21:17:12 mcktimo: +1
21:17:26@brandon: ok, so can we save we have consensous on that?
21:17:29 MK|Home: That looks like consensus to me!
21:17:35 Theresa: looks like consensus to me
21:17:50@brandon: please update meeting times on the wiki at /WG/OBIT
21:17:53@brandon: ok.
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21:18:09@brandon: 2) scheduling the wiki transition
21:18:10 solidstate: good evening occupy it!
21:18:15 siegfail|Logistics: If I were pregnant, could I say +2? 
21:18:16@brandon: hi solidstate 
21:18:20 MK|Home: evening
21:18:26 siegfail|Logistics: Sorry. I'm exhausted
21:18:38 MK|Home: Brandon, can you clarify /WG/OBIT ?
21:18:43 Theresa: Hello Solidstate...techncaly Siegfail, you could
21:18:48 Theresa: technically
21:19:01 MK|Home: oh working groups/IT got it
21:19:04@brandon: MK|Home: http://wiki.occupyboston.org/wiki/WG/OBIT
21:20:11@brandon: ok, so matt is working on the script to import the content from the old wiki to the new one
21:20:25@brandon: it should be done tomorrow or the next day
21:20:57@brandon: so I should like to setup a timeframe for freezing the old wiki, and having the new one ready to go
21:21:00@brandon: I would*
21:22:05 farmerbob: that's sort of dependent on when matt's scripts are ready for primetime, right?
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21:22:34 MK|Home: For now we should at least post a notification that it is moving so no one is surprised
21:22:41@brandon: MK|Home: right
21:23:06@brandon: does anybody want to take responsibility for adding a notification to the wikispaces informing them of the situation?
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21:23:18 lovec_: for the record, it's goddamn loud in here
21:23:24 lovec_: ...not the chat
21:23:29 matt2: +1
21:23:39@brandon: solidstate: I know you've done a lot of work on the wikispaces
21:24:07 MK|Home: Dear Boston Occupiers, Please be informed that the wiki will be transitioning to wiki.occupyboston.org in the near future. This will provide a safer and more secure space for our conversations.
21:24:30@brandon: it should be bright and large text too
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21:24:46 solidstate: support your efforts in anyway I can. 
21:24:50 MK|Home: If people like that language or want to add anything I propose we draft and post it now
21:24:55 farmerbob: but there's no reason to discourage people from adding content...
21:25:06 solidstate: think all the time you folks put into this movement is awesome. 
21:25:31@brandon: just a second guys
21:25:51 MK|Home: AH yes, should they move to the new wiki now? I think people will inevitably start getting accounts and posting.
21:25:57* MK|Home holds on
21:26:05@brandon: MK|Home: standby
21:27:27@brandon: matt says the wiki transition can occur over the weekend
21:27:31 gregg: I'm sort of here
21:27:35 gregg: lots of crap going on
21:27:43 gregg: im keeping up
21:28:36 MK|Home: gregg you are the man. thanks for your energy <3
21:28:40 lovec_: there's a meatspace conversation at the same time..
21:28:57@brandon: we propose freezing the old wiki sunday morning, and doing the transition to the new wiki sunday
21:29:26 MK|Home: +1 no objections
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21:29:40 mcktimo: has anyone done a dry run on the export file?
21:29:57@brandon: MK|Home, solidstate: can you guys take point on putting up notifications on the old wiki?  A banner at the top would be best?
21:30:14@brandon: mcktimo: the script works with minimal bugs now, it'll be better by the weekend
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21:31:15 gregg: mk: mike?
21:31:25 MK|Home: This is the easiest meeting to takes notes on
21:31:29 gregg: good times
21:31:30 MK|Home: gregg yes
21:31:44 gregg: you should fill that certain group up with far more occupy stuff :P
21:31:53 Theresa: it's also the easiest meeting to reach consensus on...
21:31:54 gregg: +1 on the wiki move sunday.
21:32:01 mcktimo: is there a sense of how much tweeking each page will need? How many pages are we talking 150?
21:32:03 Theresa: +1 wiki move sunday as well
21:32:12 farmerbob: the script is pretty good already.
21:32:24 MK|Home: And yes to putting the notification up. I will take that
21:32:27 farmerbob: the bugs can be fixed (even now) by hand in a resonable amount of time.
21:32:48@brandon: mcktimo: there are 128 pages now, most import bug free
21:32:58 MK|Home: gregg oh lord :P 
21:33:04 solidstate: will accounts transfer?
21:33:11@brandon: MK|Home: ok thanks, connect with solidstate and onekarma on that, they've done a lot of work on the wiki and can help out
21:33:16 farmerbob: no accounts. i think that's something we can't do.
21:33:17@brandon: solidstate: accounts will not transfer
21:33:55 mcktimo: why not take the human out of the verification  loop, just use the email reply thing
21:34:10 MK|Home: It is currently open registration
21:34:15 mcktimo: let poeple create their own
21:34:40@brandon: mcktimo: accounts on the new wiki don't need to be verified by an admin like on wikispaces
21:34:59 gregg: we are at 260 members on the wiki now
21:35:14 gregg: ive been verifying a few an hour for days
21:35:28 matt2: Pages imported to test: http://wiki.occupyboston.org/index.php?title=User:Matt/PagesToReview
21:36:22 MK|Home: Does anyone have an email address for onekarma?
21:36:29@brandon: the proposal as it stands: freeze wikispaces sunday morning, perform migrantion on sunday, have new wiki ready by Monday.  MK|Home, solidstate, will take point on leaving notifications on old wiki.  Any questions/objections?
21:36:35@brandon: MK|Home: ask me later tonight
21:36:54 mcktimo: cna we get the script to replace > with:
21:36:56 MK|Home: OK roger that. No objections
21:37:22@brandon: mcktimo: what's the significance of > and :?
21:37:42 mcktimo: its the markup for indenting paragraphs
21:37:55@brandon: I think it takes care of that already
21:38:00 matt2: Ah yeah. That does <dl>s which are abused for indenting. 
21:38:12 matt2: Can you add it to the bug list?
21:38:36@brandon: so if you agree with the proposal can you guys "+1"?
21:38:40 farmerbob: +1
21:38:41 solidstate: +1
21:38:42 gregg: +1
21:38:50 mcktimo: +1
21:39:04 matt2: +1000 )
21:39:23 MK|Home: +1
21:39:40@brandon: is that consensous?
21:39:55 MK|Home: Yup!
21:40:02 marxlives: +1
21:40:08 bill_kirtley: +1
21:40:10@brandon: ok, we have consensous
21:40:42@brandon: 3) MK|Home wanted to talk about communicating with other groups
21:40:52@brandon: you want to take it away MK|Home ?
21:41:09 mcktimo: matt2 I just looked at a random uploaded page, it was a formatting mess
21:41:29 farmerbob: mcktimo: which one was it
21:41:31 farmerbob: ?
21:41:45 MK|Home: Yeah, first can I get a temperature check on How the minutes are being taken? http://wiki.occupyboston.org/index.php?title=Fall_2011_OBIT_Minutes#Oct_19_2011
21:41:45 mcktimo: http://wiki.occupyboston.org/index.php?title=User:Matt/Take2//CostOfLiving
21:42:03 MK|Home: it's almost entirely brandon, but I think the essentials are there.
21:42:07 matt2: Ok. Please put bugs in the Brandon's bug page MK|Home 
21:42:34 lovec|insecurewifi: weird. it parses urls like a word document
21:42:53@brandon: bug page is WG/OBIT/Import_Bugs
21:43:06 mcktimo: could we get rid of the ugly url index.php?title=
21:43:21 bill_kirtley: GIGO: http://occupyboston.wikispaces.com/CostOfLiving
21:43:39@brandon: mcktimo: you can use wiki.occupyboston.org/wiki/WG/OBIT/Import_Bugs ugly urls aren't necessary
21:43:52 farmerbob: discussion stuff breaks in the import.
21:43:57 matt2: mcktimo: That was my first request both work except main page. 
21:45:10 MK|Home: Does anyone have objections to the minutes format or think it needs to be more detailed?
21:45:44@brandon: MK|Home: its fine
21:45:58 MK|Home: Sweet. 
21:46:04@brandon: we have raw irc logs too, so it should be a problem
21:46:04 bill_kirtley: MK|Home: plenty detail there
21:46:17 farmerbob: MK|Home: looks awesome.
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21:46:29 matt2: Minutes are fine for now. Would love to see some stuff added for other meetings. 
21:46:52@brandon: right, lets focus
21:47:04@brandon: 3) MK|Home wanted to talk about communicating with other groups
21:47:07 MK|Home: So, there is a group called "Liaisons" intended to connect working groups together. I'd be willing to volunteer to be a representative for that, but I am offsite most weeknights
21:47:44@brandon: MK|Home: there is a group which met monday, now called Transparency (#OBTransparency) which is dealing with this
21:47:45 Theresa: Liaison meets Sunday usually
21:47:58@brandon: several tech members are regulars at Transparency
21:48:09 MK|Home: OK that is excellent we need to be there
21:48:16 gregg: there is actually an organizational group
21:48:22 gregg: that has met once already
21:48:24 MK|Home: I plan to be in most weekends so I can make a Sunday meeting
21:48:27@brandon: gregg: it's called Transparency, they met monday
21:48:27 lovec|insecurewifi: sorry to harp on the IRC so much (obviously I have an affinity for it), but is there a way to add channel buttons to the kiwi interface for people who've never used irc? like, one to spawn an instance of the #occupywallstreet channel?
21:48:29 gregg: that is meeting again i belive tomorrow
21:48:31 gregg: I was thee
21:48:32 gregg: there
21:48:33 Theresa: I am part of transparency theoretically.  However, they haven't been able to provide remote access yet
21:48:42 gregg: they should be meeting again shortly
21:48:46 gregg: jason would know when if we dont
21:48:49 Theresa: tomorrow at 9 I believe
21:48:51 gregg: but i thought it was tomorrow
21:48:52 gregg: yeah
21:48:57@brandon: right, so inter group communication is taken care of by them now
21:49:01 gregg: they are working on intergroup comunication
21:49:06 gregg: and work-flow
21:49:08 MachineRebel_: Is Reed Underwood here?
21:49:11 gregg: all important things
21:49:41@brandon: ok, gregg can you address lovec|insecurewifi's question?
21:49:56 bill_kirtley: Theresa: what's this about "remote access" and should the A/V nerds help?
21:50:34 gregg: I have no idea if there is
21:50:35 lovec|insecurewifi: let me poke around with kiwi, see if there's a way to do it from a hyperlink
21:50:37 gregg: but we can ask the programmer
21:50:39 lovec|insecurewifi: brb
21:50:49 lovec|insecurewifi: lemmie guess, you know him/her too? ;)
21:50:54 MK|Home: OK, can someone clarify transparency vs. organization vs. Liaisons?
21:51:00 gregg: he is an admin of AnonNet with me
21:51:11 gregg: i brought him over here to talk to the indymedia admins for a few minutes earlier
21:51:18 gregg: to get us allowed 200 people for our kiwi without a ban
21:51:18 lovec|insecurewifi: rock on.
21:51:27 MK|Home: <3 anon
21:51:44 matt2: Proposal for next meeting: use another channel so we can meet without stepping all over random it requests. 
21:51:45@brandon: MK|Home: transparency = organization.  not sure about liasons, thought they were about connecting to other occupations
21:51:55 gregg: so I'll ask him for the feature
21:51:59 gregg: but I bet its there
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21:52:20 siegfail|Logistics: Just got back. What item are we at?
21:52:27@brandon: any more questions about inter group communication or Transparency?
21:52:49 gregg: ok, asked
21:52:57 gregg: might be asleep already, from the UK
21:53:01 lovec|insecurewifi: gregg: it might be as simple as a call in a url. I'm going to check just for the hell of it. I think it would be cool to have a poplist where people could bounce to other states/cities/countries.
21:53:05 gregg: yeah
21:53:13@brandon: ok
21:53:18 gregg: if not we could also add it as instructions on that page
21:53:21@brandon: lets move on to 4) issue tracker
21:53:40@leftyfb: damn, just made it in for the last item
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21:53:47@leftyfb: one I'm not too familiar with
21:53:50 Theresa: got disconnected
21:53:54 matt2: We saw that Gainne create a trac instance. 
21:54:08@brandon: so right now there is trac setup
21:54:14@brandon: I personally think that's overkill
21:54:15 Theresa: I am trying to attend meeting remotely and there is no way to do so in most instances.  is there a way to address that with the A/V nerds?
21:54:16@leftyfb: why do we need a ticketing system?
21:54:17@brandon: any thoughts?
21:54:17 gregg: where is the trac?
21:54:19 matt2: I'm not in favor of trac personally as it just seems kind of big and unwieldly. 
21:54:19 lovec|insecurewifi: leftyfb: ! better late than never
21:54:27 MK|Home: leftfb: leftyfb: get caught up here: http://wiki.occupyboston.org/index.php?title=Fall_2011_OBIT_Minutes#Oct_19_2011
21:54:39@brandon: leftyfb: logistics has requested a ticketing system
21:54:43 farmerbob: i think that trac is good for development, but not for other things.
21:54:44@leftyfb: for?
21:54:58 gregg: responding to needs
21:55:00@brandon: siegfail|Logistics: are you here?
21:55:01 gregg: status on the resopnse
21:55:05 gregg: logistical things
21:55:14@leftyfb: hm
21:55:16 gregg: since we also want project management
21:55:18@leftyfb: interesting
21:55:28 MK|Home: I've used Trac a bit. We moved to Jira recently. I like it slightly better
21:55:30 siegfail|Logistics: Hi. Busy at the tent.
21:55:32@brandon: an alternative to trac which has been proposed is redmine
21:55:33 siegfail|Logistics: Back.
21:55:34 gregg: could we use redmine? would its issue tracker be good enough?
21:55:37 matt2: Ah. I thought it was tracking for IT requests.  Stupid me. 
21:55:39@leftyfb: so, can I put in request to have the IRC channel staffed when there's nobody in there? ;-)
21:55:41@brandon: siegfail|Logistics: we're discussing ticketing
21:55:44 gregg: redmine would give us far better project tracking for IT
21:55:54 gregg: but also has issue tracking iirc
21:56:08 bill_kirtley: ticketing systems are good for following history and status of an issue, with particular attention to who is responsible at the moment
21:56:10 siegfail|Logistics: Perfect. This? http://trac.edgewall.org/
21:56:21 bill_kirtley: redmine is IMO less clunky than trac
21:56:38@brandon: should we vote on trac vs. redmine?
21:56:41 siegfail|Logistics: Logistics would do well with this.
21:56:52 gregg: who is siegfail?
21:56:58@brandon: I'm not familiar with either system
21:57:01 gregg: rene? eric?
21:57:04 MachineRebel_: before you vote on trac vs. redmine, have you looked at bettermeans.org?
21:57:07 gregg: satan incarnate?
21:57:16@leftyfb: pretty sure it's Rene
21:57:17 siegfail|Logistics: Rene
21:57:19 lovec|insecurewifi: gregg: found it in the code. iframe src="https://www.kiwiirc.com/client/irc.indymedia.org/?nick=occupy_?#occupyboston"
21:57:21 gregg: good stuff
21:57:38 farmerbob: jira is okay. but it's a java app on tomcat/jetty...kind of a pain of we don't already have java apps.
21:57:39 gregg: lovec|insecurewifi: right, but that will restart it
21:57:41 farmerbob: and it's not free.
21:57:48 lovec|insecurewifi: oh shit. haha
21:57:49 gregg: on the new channel
21:57:58 MachineRebel_: bettermeans.org just went open source
21:58:08 MachineRebel_: it's a bit like pivotal tracker
21:58:12 MachineRebel_: but more democratic
21:58:39 gregg: its a lot of buzzwords and slick marketing and looks like another enterprise tool that has 4 million options when we need 30?
21:59:02 matt2: So what is the request from logistics?  Support tracking?  Project management?  Other stuff?
21:59:05 farmerbob: basecamp.
21:59:24 gregg: ticket/issue tracking mostly
21:59:25 siegfail|Logistics: One sec
21:59:28@brandon: siegfail|Logistics: can you please describe what you'd like
21:59:30 gregg: others brought up the idea of project tracking
21:59:37 gregg: and i thought redmine might cover both
22:00:03 bill_kirtley: I'm not familiar with this bettermeans.org is, but don't see it in ten seconds browsing ... project tracking?
22:00:17 siegfail|Logistics: ok. sorry. It's so busy here right now. We need to keep track of issues, lost&foud items, todos, etc.
22:00:18 MK|Home: I like the idea of project tracking as well. It would be nice if it could be something to keep track of groups,roles,projects, etc.
22:00:35 siegfail|Logistics: Inventory tracking would be cool too
22:00:45 Theresa: +1 inventory tracking
22:00:55@leftyfb: should it be worth noting the system should have a mobile component as well so it actually gets used?
22:01:00 matt2: I question whether hard core projectamagment would actually be used given that a lot f folks aren't technical...
22:01:02 siegfail|Logistics: YES
22:01:07@leftyfb: +1 inventory tracking
22:01:08 siegfail|Logistics: needs mobile interfce
22:01:09 matt2: +1 to mobile
22:01:16 Theresa: I can use it to track volunteers as well?
22:01:17 lovec|insecurewifi: leftyfb: that's KEY. +1
22:01:20@brandon: so trac doesn't have a mobile interface, right?
22:01:36@brandon: I don't know about redmine
22:01:41 siegfail|Logistics: I was told it did but I didn't find mention of it at a quick glance.
22:01:52 siegfail|Logistics: trac, that is
22:01:54 bill_kirtley: also, trac fits into the classic bug tracking model, which isn't really going to help with inventory or volunteers or lost+found
22:02:02 siegfail|Logistics: ok, cool.
22:02:04 farmerbob: i think it's worth considering something hosted, like basecamp, with a nice user experience.
22:02:13 bill_kirtley: (not that I'd expect redmine or jira to either
22:02:21 matt2: I briefly searched for mobile trac. Believe it's handled as a plugin/extension. 
22:02:29 MK|Home: Are we moving away from hosted and owning all our systems?
22:02:35 matt2: -1 to hosted
22:02:45 farmerbob: matt2: fair enough.
22:02:48 gregg: MK|Home: indeed
22:02:54 matt2: (I don't mind personally but the movement seems to be o go local)
22:02:54 siegfail|Logistics: The idea is that anyone, especially newer people, can jump on and see what needs to be done. It would also help to keep track of efficiency
22:03:15@brandon: so, there is a trac install up.  we can try to get that set with mobile and see what happens
22:03:29 MK|Home: Are we backing up?
22:03:38@brandon: MK|Home: mayfirst backs up daily
22:04:23 MK|Home: I have a <3-on for them
22:04:30 matt2: I would like to make sure that features of trac that overlap other things-- wiki for instance -- get highlighted LOUDLY as not to be used for non tracking stuff. 
22:04:44@brandon: matt2: a very good point
22:05:02@brandon: in fact, if the trac wiki can be outright disabled I think it should be.  can this be done?
22:05:19 matt2: Also we need to talk to Grainne about this install. I knew nothing about it until Ross mentioned it. Where is it hosted?  Why is it so slow?
22:05:27 MK|Home: Would it be useful to have an internal doc? What does transparency think about this?
22:05:33@brandon: it's hosted on mayfirst I think
22:05:39 matt2: +1 to disabling confusable features.
22:06:01 siegfail|Logistics: That is essential for logistics. We don't need more stuff enabled than we need.
22:06:27@brandon: siegfail|Logistics: do you in particular want trac?
22:07:13 siegfail|Logistics: I'm not partial. It needs a mobile interface, though.
22:07:47 siegfail|Logistics: We'd keep track of stuff that needs to be done, people to call back, inventory, todo's, lost & found items
22:08:07 lovec|insecurewifi: I'm for anything with a mobile interface. I spend most of my time in medical, and they don't have a single computer between them
22:08:14 siegfail|Logistics: and general stuff that doesn't fit those catagories. 
22:08:30@brandon: so there are mobile plugins for both trac and redmine
22:08:38 bill_kirtley: I do see a redmine mobile plugin: https://projects.littlestreamsoftware.com/projects/redmine-mobile - no clue how good
22:08:53 siegfail|Logistics: We would have a logistics computer here at the tent but sometimes we're out of the tent and it would be awesome to start a ticket out in "the field".
22:09:02 siegfail|Logistics: cool
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22:10:59@brandon: siegfail|Logistics: we think a full fledged issue tracker is overkill
22:11:23@brandon: how would it be if we looked into an issue tracker extension for the wiki?
22:11:48 siegfail|Logistics: We're looking for a glorified todo/tracking system with logs so we can review what and how we're doing.
22:12:18@brandon: that sounds like something you can do with a wiki
22:12:33@brandon: on the wiki you have revision hsitory, watchlists, etc
22:12:51 farmerbob: mediawiki has features that would make using it this way pretty doable.
22:13:40 siegfail|Logistics: Does a wiki keep track of the status of the ticket?
22:13:42 MK|Home: One thing I'm impressed with is the creative use of txt messages. Theresa - I think you told me about groupme - the txt based chat?
22:13:47 siegfail|Logistics: Because that's important.
22:14:02 siegfail|Logistics: And we have tons of ticketable issues everyday. Lots and lots.
22:14:09 Theresa: Yes that was me, group me is really useful
22:14:13 gregg: I've updated the livestream page on the blog, it now embeds the current livestream and the library of all the old ones and the chat box
22:14:18 gregg: http://www.occupyboston.org/livestream/
22:14:36* cykros is the meeting still going on? or just general discussion?
22:14:37@leftyfb: gregg: want me to update the topic/greet in the main channel?
22:14:38 bill_kirtley: bug traking brings: 1) history of specific issues, 2) who owns which issue
22:14:43 gregg: no GA has happened tonight
22:14:50 gregg: they voted not to do it
22:14:53 gregg: leftyfb: with what?
22:14:57 siegfail|Logistics: It would be great to keep track of who started the ticket too.
22:15:04 siegfail|Logistics: and who actioned on it.
22:15:05 matt2: cykros: Meeting in progress.  Working on track stuff. 
22:15:09@leftyfb: gregg: link to embedded livestream
22:15:09 MK|Home: gregg: cause of the weather?
22:15:24 gregg: MK|Home: as I understand it yes
22:15:37 gregg: leftyfb: yeah
22:15:48 gregg: we should be sending people to our site, not theirs
22:15:56 gregg: and working on doing more with the traffic we have
22:16:08* cykros thanks matt2
22:16:17 MK|Home: Do we have traffic metrics?
22:16:30 gregg: not before today
22:16:32 gregg: but i have todays so far
22:16:36 gregg: and going forward we will
22:16:57 gregg: 13,525 pageviews today
22:17:15 farmerbob: siegfail|Logistics: would you be amenable to trying to work this into the new wiki?
22:17:25 gregg: would anyone have a problem with me adding in google analytics?
22:17:29@leftyfb: gregg: topic and greet updated
22:17:36 gregg: or should we just stick to the built in wp stats?
22:17:47@leftyfb: gregg: seekr might, he dislikes google :)
22:17:56 gregg: he can block it if he feels like it
22:18:04 MK|Home: gregg: is there any security risk if we do? Google makes great products, but they are a pretty faceless white cube
22:18:05 gregg: but the metrics and tools it gives are amazingly helpful
22:18:19 gregg: not that i know of
22:18:20 siegfail|Logistics: I feel like the wiki isn't the right fit for our workflow. I could be wrong. 
22:18:33 gregg: siegfail|Logistics: i agree with you, on both points.
22:18:39@cykros: personally, I'd give a -1 to google analytics. the data gathering it seems to give them is kind of icky.
22:18:42 siegfail|Logistics: heheh
22:18:54 MK|Home: Do any of the systems support SMS? Assuming smart phones = a big assumption
22:18:54 farmerbob: gregg: technically, including remote javascript is always, at some level, insecure.
22:18:57@cykros: though, personally, I also block google analytics anyway. :shrug:
22:18:57 gregg: we could use piwik then
22:19:34 siegfail|Logistics: Can a ticket system post a digest of the issues to a wiki?
22:19:40 siegfail|Logistics: daily?
22:19:49@brandon: ok.
22:20:03 matt2: Also with things hosted locally we can also just parse our own log files for analytical
22:20:16 gregg: matt2: thats basically what i am saying
22:20:16@brandon: proposal: we will modify trac to simplify it as much as possible, and can use that as an issue tracking system
22:20:18 farmerbob: MK|Home: we have lots of tools for sms.
22:20:21 matt2: Damnyouautocorrect
22:20:27 gregg: we can use piwik which will do a lot of what google analytics does
22:20:37 MK|Home: Huh open analytics eh? piwik sounds good
22:20:39@brandon: if there are problems with trac, we'll explore new topics
22:20:45 siegfail|Logistics: +1 @brandon proposal
22:20:48@brandon: explore new alternatives*
22:20:51 gregg: http://piwik.org/
22:20:53 gregg: its decent
22:20:59 gregg: i use it for some clients who dont like google as well
22:20:59@cykros: idk much about piwik, but it sounds all right to me.
22:21:02 gregg: it does what I would want
22:21:02@brandon: "+1s" or "-1s" on proposal please
22:21:08 gregg: its hosted
22:21:12 gregg: by us i mean
22:21:13@cykros: +1
22:21:19 MK|Home: +1 trac. Can we re-evaulate in a week if there are issues?
22:21:22 gregg: brandon: +1
22:21:34 Theresa: +1 and +1 to re-evaluate in a week if there are issues
22:21:41 siegfail|Logistics: +1 MK|Home
22:21:47 gregg: Proposal: Piwik instead of google analytics for web analytics on occupyboston.org?
22:21:51 gregg: +1 from me :)
22:21:51@brandon: ok.  addendum to proposal: have track ready by friday, reevalutate next friday.
22:21:57 gregg: brandon: +1
22:21:58@cykros: +1 to piwik
22:21:59 Theresa: +1 piwik
22:22:03 matt2: -1 non blocking just because I think in a week it'll have two tickets :)
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22:22:29 lovec|insecurewifi: +1 piwik (because, fuck google.)
22:22:34@brandon: guys, there are two votes going on in this channel, and it's confusing
22:22:37 gregg: ok
22:22:38 siegfail|Logistics: yeah
22:22:41@brandon: right now, can we vote on the trac proposal?
22:22:42 gregg: i got what i needed
22:22:46 gregg: trac was voted on
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22:22:48 siegfail|Logistics: +1 trac
22:22:51 gregg: it went well
22:22:55 siegfail|Logistics: +1 piwik
22:22:58 matt2: Sorry. Pwik is hosted?  Local?
22:23:08 Theresa: +1 for trac and +1 for re-evaluating in a week and+1 for piwik
22:23:34 gregg: matt2: local, we host it.
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22:23:50@brandon: it seems like there is consenous on both proposals, yes?
22:23:53 tracyhome: +1 for piwik
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22:24:02 Theresa: yes consensus on both
22:24:10 farmerbob: -1 for trac (not adamant, just think it's not a good fit for logistics)
22:24:13 siegfail|Logistics: consensus on both, looks like
22:24:22 farmerbob: consensus
22:24:23@brandon: MK|Home: we have consensous on both the piwik proposal, and the trac proposal, please enter that into the minutes
22:24:45 MK|Home: Got it. Also farmerbob your mild -1 has been noted
22:24:59 siegfail|Logistics: Can I work with someone on trac?
22:25:02@brandon: we'll reevaluate trac next friday
22:25:08 gregg: getting piwik up shortly
22:25:42 MK|Home: This might be the best meeting ever
22:25:44@brandon: siegfail|Logistics: we'll get somebody to work with you trac before monday
22:25:49 siegfail|Logistics: thanks
22:25:52@brandon: MK|Home: ^^ add to minutes
22:25:57 siegfail|Logistics: occupyrene (at) gmail
22:25:59 matt2: So Gregg you are owning Piwik I take it?
22:26:08@cykros: do we have a new calendar system being discussed at any point? or are we sticking with Google for that?
22:26:22* cykros sorry if i'm jumping agenda...i kind of came in late
22:26:24 siegfail|Logistics: good topic
22:26:29 matt2: Sorry cykros can we stick to -- right :)
22:26:35@brandon: cykros: calendar can be tabled until next meeting
22:26:43 farmerbob: very good topic. maybe next mtgZ?
22:26:44 siegfail|Logistics: cool
22:26:59@cykros: sounds good
22:27:00 matt2: Who is owning Piwik long term? 
22:27:14 MK|Home: Can everyone meet at this time every week?
22:27:21 Theresa: I can
22:27:23@brandon: 5) any other business to discuss?
22:27:31@brandon: 6) next meeting time
22:27:46@leftyfb: now I know there's no other calendar system out there that is as easy to use and widely tied into by any calendaring devices/services 
22:27:50@leftyfb: brandon
22:28:00@leftyfb: twitter/IRC
22:28:05@brandon: ok, right
22:28:07@leftyfb: not sure this is the right forum for ut
22:28:08@leftyfb: it
22:28:14@brandon: leftyfb: what are your concerns
22:28:15* cykros MK|Home I probably can't, but it's better than the 10 am time
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22:28:26 MK|Home: WP has some calendar plug-ins
22:28:29 MachineRebel_: Who was talking about GroupMe and SMS?
22:28:38 MK|Home: Theresa
22:28:40@brandon: calendar is tabled until next meeting.  let's drop it now
22:28:45 matt2: Let's get some order here. 
22:28:47* MK|Home drops
22:28:47@leftyfb: but how can we get it so the camp is actually using these things? Twitter isn't updated nearly as often as it should be and IRC is almost never staffed from anyone at camp unless myself or my brother are there using the IRC laptop
22:29:05 tracyhome: That is a big probllem.
22:29:13 tracyhome: I have been complaining about it.
22:29:18@leftyfb: it's a big deal since we get LOTS of questions and offers on IRC and people wondering what's going on
22:29:33 MK|Home: I think we will see clearer definitions of roles and working groups that will help things like this
22:29:50 Theresa: Btw, I told someone from IRC that I would pass on their compliments on the new website
22:29:51 MK|Home: I was just in media last night and Alex was kinda chewing people out that there wasn't a blog post that day
22:29:52@leftyfb: hell, someone with access to the twitter account could just be walking around the camp a couple times a day taking pics of interesting things/people and posting them to twitter
22:30:04@brandon: I feel like this is media's responsibility
22:30:17 MK|Home: Updating content is definitely media's responsibility
22:30:19 farmerbob: brandon: agreed.
22:30:27@leftyfb: brandon: it sort of is, but we also get questions that should be fielded by logistics
22:30:35@leftyfb: "I have 20 tarps to bring down, are they needed?"
22:30:36 lovec|insecurewifi: I do agree about media being in the IRC though. the only problem is, the people we have staffed don't know, because half the questions are for logistics
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22:30:38 MK|Home: but for those in organization or transparency or other inter-group groups I think it's good to mention here
22:30:51 farmerbob: leftyfb: you need a voicemailbox?
22:30:58@brandon: this seems like an issue to take up at Transparency
22:31:08 Theresa: good suggestion brandon
22:31:09 siegfail|Logistics: guys.. send  logistics questions to occupybostonlogistics (at) gmail for now
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22:31:16 bill_kirtley: the tarp question should be a wiki "wish list" page
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22:31:21@leftyfb: brandon: how are they going to get media and logistics staffed on IRC?
22:31:35 siegfail|Logistics: I'm going to redo the logisitics wiki tomorrow. Couldn't get to it today.
22:31:46 matt2: Yeah this sounds like a comm problem looking for a tech solution to me.
22:31:51 siegfail|Logistics: Camp was flooded the fuck out today. Logistics is going to work on it. 
22:31:54@leftyfb: bill_kirtley: it was an example, probably a bad one since tarps are on the list .... it's more for questions/offers we can't actually answer ourselves or by looking at the list
22:32:04 MK|Home: Gregg and Theresa am I correct that you're looking at OB from a higher level organizaitonal perspective?
22:32:05 siegfail|Logistics: And I'll be doing the wiki
22:32:19 matt2: Why does this person have to be at camp leftyfb ?
22:32:22@brandon: siegfail|Logistics: logistics needs a presence on irc
22:32:26 bill_kirtley: ... and if whoever's covering the IRC knows the basic wiki map can direct questions that way
22:32:34 MK|Home: Also - is this still part of the meeting or is it general discussion?
22:32:35@leftyfb: matt: so the rest of the world knows what's going on at camp
22:32:52@leftyfb: MK|Home: depends on if we have time to come up with solutions
22:33:02@brandon: we're still in the meeting
22:33:05@leftyfb: I've been complaining about it for a week now
22:33:08 bill_kirtley: leftyfb: more generally, whoever's covering IRC should know how to find (in your example) logistics, but not necessarily know the answers
22:33:16 siegfail|Logistics: Yes, yes. However, we're so busy keeping track of all the shit we do and it's hard to bring in new people and I'm too busy for a constant irc presence. 
22:33:22 matt2: I thought we were taking about handling requests and stuff?  Say the example happened couldn't someone remote call logistics?
22:33:25 siegfail|Logistics: we're working on our group to allow for that.
22:33:29 siegfail|Logistics: It is  goal
22:33:30@brandon: leftyfb: how about you and me take on the task of improving irc communication between groups?
22:33:43@brandon: we'll work on it and evaluate progress at another meeting
22:33:47 farmerbob: there's been some talk about using voice communications to make this sort of thing easier.
22:33:58 farmerbob: irc is hard for most.
22:33:59@leftyfb: brandon: ok, not sure what we're be doing exactly, but ok
22:34:10 MK|Home: Don't we have talkie talkies?
22:34:13@leftyfb: farmerbob: there's a chat link on the front page
22:34:22@leftyfb: farmerbob: click it, click connect ... you're in chat
22:34:26 matt2: We could do something like have a bot that we can msgs the questions to a logistics phone ring. 
22:34:30@cykros: I think if anything, it may be useful to use xmpp instead of irc for intergroup communication. some folks already have google talk, for instance, which runs on xmpp
22:34:31 farmerbob: leftyfb: hard to do sans computer.
22:34:34@cykros: group chats exist too
22:34:38@brandon: Proposal: leftyfb and myself will communicate with both media and logistics to impress upon them the importance of having a presence in irc
22:34:40 matt2: (manually sending to bot)
22:34:45 Theresa: Yes, I am trying to.  the challenge is that I can only do that remotely and there is no set up for that...which we should address since many people want to be involved with Occupy Boston outside of Dewey
22:34:50@cykros: and meanwhile, those of us that are anti-google can just go ahead and use jabber.org, or even self-host.
22:35:01@leftyfb: farmerbob: logistics has a laptop and media has a dedicated IRC laptop that I built for them to use for this exact purpose
22:35:07@brandon: xmpp is even harder to setup than irc
22:35:09@cykros: the learning curve may be easier than irc
22:35:17@cykros: brandon: to set up a server, yea. to use, probably not
22:35:23@cykros: it's not like we're hosting the irc as it is.
22:35:23 farmerbob: leftyfb: right on. thought voice might be easier, especially for donors.
22:35:40* cykros shrugs. just an idea
22:35:44@leftyfb: there is no learning curve to clicking on "Live Chat" on occupyboston.org and click connect
22:35:49 lovec|insecurewifi: leftyfb: you know, crispusattucks could always mine @oblogistics for "!mostneeded" or maybe we could have a string in the media stream that has "!nowhappening"?
22:36:02@brandon: anyway, my proposal stands, myself and leftyfb will take on the problem of getting communication with media and logistics in irc
22:36:12@cykros: i guess that's true. i forgot we even had a web applet
22:36:16 farmerbob: +1 brandon
22:36:31@leftyfb: I can make the eggdrop parse almost anything ... pushing out information isn't as easy ... and where would it go?
22:36:33@brandon: "+1s" or "-1s" please
22:36:49 MK|Home: +1 to brandon and amend request you bring the results to transparency
22:36:55 Theresa: +1
22:36:59@cykros: +1
22:37:05@brandon: MK|Home that amendment can be accomodated
22:37:19 bill_kirtley: +1
22:37:21 matt2: +1 to proposal
22:37:30 gregg: MK|Home: what do you mean higher level?
22:37:33 lovec|insecurewifi: leftyfb: it could pipe right into chat or as a PM to the user who made the call
22:37:35 matt2: Thanks for keeping us inline brandon 
22:37:35 gregg: MK|Home: are you asking about my role?
22:37:36 lovec|insecurewifi: ?
22:37:42 siegfail|Logistics: alright
22:37:44 siegfail|Logistics: +1
22:37:47@brandon: ok, so we have consensous?
22:37:54 matt2: lovec|insecurewifi: That's what I was saying!  Yay! Bots++
22:37:54 siegfail|Logistics: yep
22:37:56@brandon: MK|Home: make sure it gets into the minutes
22:37:58 Theresa: yes
22:38:00 MK|Home: gregg just trying to keep tabs on how we're evolving as an organism
22:38:10@brandon: 6) the last thing we have to talk about is the next meeting time
22:38:15 gregg: MK|Home: fair enough
22:38:17 farmerbob: lovec|insecurewifi: bots for everything
22:38:28 matt2: Agenda+ review actions!
22:38:32* cykros farmerbob we support the robot revolution
22:38:37 lovec|insecurewifi: lol
22:38:39 gregg: dont really know how to describe me other than organizational and logistical by nature, but also being heavy into media and doing a LOT of interviews for this.
22:38:47 gregg: I fix problems? :P
22:38:57 siegfail|Logistics: duty calls! Gtg do this logistics thing. going afk
22:39:08 gregg: siegfail|Logistics: cya tomorrow
22:39:17 MK|Home: gregg we're all here to fix problems :) 
22:39:20 gregg: indeed
22:39:22 siegfail|Logistics: You better give me a hug, gregg
22:39:29 gregg: i meant more logistical ones, but yes :)
22:39:43 lovec|insecurewifi: ps. leftyfb I appreciate you not knocking my head off for suggesting solutions that would obviously fall to you to write into the eggdrop. jesus, I'd forgotten about eggdrop...
22:39:44@brandon: Is everybody OK with fri. afternoon for another irc meeting?
22:39:52 gregg: works for me
22:40:15 lovec|insecurewifi: I'm okay with it, I may be driving to new jersey but I can read the minutes
22:40:17@cykros: depends on time, but i doubt you can accomodate me on friday regardless, so wouldn't request it
22:40:18 Theresa: what time fri afternoon?
22:40:20@cykros: i'll read the logs.
22:40:28 matt2: +1 to fri afternoon
22:40:33@leftyfb: lovec|insecurewifi: we'll talk after the meeting ... I don't feel a bot or automated system fits the needs of having someone from camp present in IRC. It's not always for requests 
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22:41:03@brandon: what time
22:41:04@brandon: ?
22:41:04 farmerbob: +1 any time friday
22:41:30 MK|Home: Propose 2 PM. I will be at work but can half be here
22:41:32@leftyfb: evening Friday
22:41:41 Theresa: Honestly, friday afternoon I am going to be unloading a moving truck....evening is better for me
22:41:43@leftyfb: I can't get there till after 7 ... if at all
22:41:44 lovec|insecurewifi: leftyfb: I agree with that. I guess I just love the idea of a revolutionary robot
22:42:01 MK|Home: Tomorrow is #OccupyTheHood and we should try to show solidarity
22:42:04 matt2: I cant make Friday after 5 or so :/
22:42:08@leftyfb: lovec|insecurewifi: I am happy to improve the bot in any way ... in fact, I'm going to add the logistics twitter to it now
22:42:16 lovec|insecurewifi: :)
22:42:23 lovec|insecurewifi: MK|Home: I thought that was friday?
22:42:41@brandon: who cannot attend an irc meeting friday at 4?
22:42:45 MK|Home: lovec derp yes. lost track of what day it is
22:43:01 lovec|insecurewifi: I cannot.
22:43:03@cykros: i can't, but friday is out for me entirely. don't let me stop the meeting.
22:43:07 Theresa: I cannot
22:43:10 MK|Home: I will probably be driving home at 4
22:43:15 matt2: farmerbob has mad SMS skillz. Having folks off camp be able to bounce questions/requests to logistics phone would be nice. 
22:43:17 Theresa: I can do after 7
22:43:26 g:  cannot but am going to be away all weekend so just do it whenever and i'll catch up l8r
22:43:59 Theresa: I can catch up from the notes or something if it has to be done earlier
22:44:03 matt2: Is the 4pm proposal dead?
22:44:15 lovec|insecurewifi: I think so
22:44:25@brandon: friday 9?  like today?
22:44:26 farmerbob: somebody said 2pm
22:44:28 MK|Home: Happy Birthday gregg
22:44:32 matt2: I don't have to be present. I'll mostly be wiki working between now and then. 
22:44:51 matt2: I can send status to list before meeting. 
22:45:15 farmerbob: i think i found a band we should book for dewey
22:45:23 lovec|insecurewifi: its your birthday gregg ?
22:45:26 matt2: Was 2pm proposed if not lets propose it. 
22:45:32 matt2: Temp
22:45:34@brandon: ok
22:45:38 farmerbob: i can do 2
22:45:40 MK|Home: 2 PM I will be at work and can participate now and then. I suspect lots of us screen-starers could have a much slower conversation between our duties to our corporate maters
22:45:43@brandon: Proposal: irc meeting Friday 2PM
22:45:47 gregg: who should be added to see the web stats?
22:45:50 gregg: piwik is up and running
22:45:55 Theresa: I'd liketo be gregg
22:46:03@brandon: +1's and -1's please
22:46:06 matt2: +1 to 2pm
22:46:07 bill_kirtley: I'm with MK|Home ... can "audit" at 2PM 
22:46:09 farmerbob: +1 2pm
22:46:10 MK|Home: gregg would also like to be included
22:46:11 gregg: brandon: +1
22:46:22 lovec|insecurewifi: 0 on 2pm. neutral.
22:46:24 matt2: There will be irc component like this meeting. 
22:46:24 Theresa: -1 but I can look later at notes
22:46:43 lovec|insecurewifi: isn't democracy a pain in the ass?
22:46:48 matt2: (we can also try freeconference.com if folks want)
22:46:53 gregg: anyone who wants to see web analytics pm me your email address and desired username.
22:46:59 farmerbob: friday will be lovely. i'll be outside
22:47:13 MK|Home: OK. Are there agenda items for Friday?
22:47:32 farmerbob: can we wiki agenda proposals?
22:47:39@brandon: OK. 2 PM it is.  We can wiki the agenda.
22:47:40 matt2: Shitty music just went from bad to horrific. 
22:48:01 Theresa: calendar is on for friday already right?
22:48:05 farmerbob: if shitty means great and bad means amazing and horrific means spiritual then yes.
22:48:19 matt2: Just when you thought you couldn't get worse than Hootie and the blowfish on comes gFriends in low places. 
22:48:22 farmerbob: motion to adjourn
22:48:23@brandon: MK|Home: let the minutes show next irc meeting 2pm, friday
22:48:41* matt2 wonders if caulkthewagon ended up doing karaoke at midway. 
22:48:50* MK|Home lets the minutes show that
22:48:51 matt2: Adjourn seconded!
22:48:55* bill_kirtley thinks there might be variance in musical tastes in the room
22:48:55 lovec|insecurewifi: +1
22:49:02@brandon: ok.  meeting over I guess
22:49:08@cykros: +1 adjourn
22:49:23 farmerbob: word.
22:49:26 bill_kirtley: +1 adjourn
22:49:26 matt2: MK|Home: Thanks for taking minutes!