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What is taxation...really?
- user:Occupy_Boston Thursday, 1:15 pm
From The Nation:
Taxation, far from being a bureaucratic scam to steal our hard-won earnings by some alien “them” or “it,” is the way citizens pool resources to do public things together they can’t do alone. Attacking the power to tax is attacking the power of the people to spend their money in concert to achieve important public goals, whether national defense, public education or social justice. The anti-tax ideologues pretend to protect us, but in truth they disempower us.
re: What is taxation...really?
- user:jmagly Yesterday 8:11 pm
I do agree and would like to take it a step further and say that in the past we society had a need for leaders ("monarchs", now leaders by many names) to help in the co-ordination of those resources. Simple logistics of previous era's required this type of structure due to limitations on education and communication among the populace.
As our population grew more and more layers are placed between the many who pool their resources and the few that control it.
We are fortunate that in this day in age we have created amazing technologies that allow the "common" person to obtain information and communicate with others in increasingly rich detail.
Further we have, through public funding, created an educated citizenry that is capable of rational thought and achieving balanced solutions to problems we collectively face if we are provided the right framework (culture/technology/education) with which to have the conversation.
As a result we as a people are better equipped to take more direct control of our society and the how we allocate our collective resources and policy.
Taxation is absolutely necessary for a functioning society at this stage. The people however, require more transparency and control over how we spend that money.
re: What is taxation...really?
- user:ericjohncoury Today 11:48 am
I believe that taxation in its traditional sense - i.e. under a king who would pocket the money, has obtained a bad rap. In a normally functioning democratic republic taxes are a manner in which we can help to build a better society for all - through shared sacrifice. As a society taxes should be used to build roads, bridges, schools, educate, enable social mobility, and provide opportunity. They should be used to help the unfortunate to build better lives, etc. Thats not what is happening today. Taxes are being used to subsidize already super wealthy corporations, bail out banks, pay off dictators to like us, and other strange things that dont help the majority of struggling Americans. Today we have a form of taxation without representation... consider this. If we pay taxes, but our elected officials are beholden to those who can donate the most in campaign contributions - then are they really representing you? No... because they are addicted to money - through campaign contributions - in order to remain in office, your interests arent considered when voting on legislation. Instead the "person" (more like corporation) who can front the money for the next election (typically special interest groups supported by big business) essentially BUY legislation. So we have a form of taxation without representation.
Furthermore, a far more complex form of taxation without representation, are the externalities of deregulated businesses. Pollution is technically a tax on the future, so is underfunding education, the inflated price of goods, income disparities, and the cost of oligopolies/monopolies/collusion, and price fixing. Its time we begin to educate ourselves about these issues - and speak about them. "No Taxation without Honest Representation"! Keep up the good fight!
re: What is taxation...really?
- user:OccupyReality Today 12:06 pm
Taxation, and submitting to laws, are the price that one pays to live in an orderly and civil society.
Having said that, this doesn't mean that all taxes are good or that more is necessarily better.
You need to weigh the costs against the benefits, both direct and indirect, to all of society.
All Occupy Movements gather in DC
- user:TheAssassinBug Today 8:44 am
I think that all of the Occupy Movements from all over the country (world?) should meet for one or two days in DC. This would be a great show of support for the entire movement, and show our politicians that they are on notice.
Toward a Better World
- user:rkerver Wednesday, 5:22 am
This discussion thread created to move online an email thread seeded by FSU on the "politics" of OB.
re: Toward a Better World
- user:rkerver Wednesday, 5:34 am
Then, perhaps, through discourse, we can arrive at a set of goals & objectives truly held by the 99%, originating from the heart & mind of the 99%, for the 99%.....
re: Toward a Better World
- user:25whatever Wednesday, 2:20 pm
curious, what statistics did you use to come up with the idea YOU are the 99%?
re: Toward a Better World
- user:gregking3 Yesterday 4:35 am
Hi, Everybody. I'm a rank-and-file member of SEIU, local 888. I'm much older than most folks taking part in Occupy Boston. I was 19 in 1969, at the height of the movement to end the Vietnam war. I came out to Hawaii the year before that as a devout Roman Catholic, quite comservative in my views, but was quite deeply affected by the courage of young people like me in deserting the armed froces,resisting the draft and in other ways opposing the Vietnam war. I took some courses (I was going to the University of Hawaii) and did a lot of talking with the young resisters, as well as a lot of thinking about what my country was doing in Vietnam. I gradually became a radical Catholic and joined The Hawaii Resistance, a group affiliated with the War Resisters League. Joining my new friends in leafleting servicemen on R & R in Waikiki, I talked with all kinds of people, including a young CIA agent, who told me he was against the Vietnam war, but was all for "the coming war in Thailand, because the Thai peasants love their king." I helped organize the "grunts" (rank-and-file US soldiers sent to Vietnam) and, with everybody working together, we soon had 37 deserters in sanctuary at four local churches in Honolulu. We got some of them undeground to Canada and Sweden. The rest got busted in a predawn raid by the HASP (Hawaii Armed Services Police). Our sanctuary had lasted two months, though, and those 37 deserters had bravely taken a stand against further participation in the killing.
We dreamed of revolution because, like you, we saw the root of war in the financial system skewed against ordinary people and driven by an "expand-or-die" logic. We were nonviolent. Like my friends, I pictured hundreds of thousands of people sitting down on Wall Street, on Pennsylvania Avenue and at the Pentagon, bringing an end to "business as usual." But I had seen the authorities do such things as slam a whole row of metal benches into the ribs of a friend when we were blocking the 29th Brigade from getting on planes for Vietnam. I had visions of truncheons coming down on the heads and bodies of men, women and children I had grown to love, if we really did try to "throw our bodies onto the machine," as Mario Savio had advised at Berkeley in '64 during the Free Speech Movement. I couldn't bear such images of friends being bloodied, so I joined SDS and began to study Marxism. I still wanted peaceful change in my heart of hearts. I envisioned our joining and organizing in the armed forces, so that instead of firing on the people, those soldiers would "turn their guns around." If they did, they might not have to fire them.
I've remained committed to social change that's as bloodless as possible my whole life. I strongly believe in the rights and the self-empowerment of working people, so I have been a labor activist for a long time. I remain one. I want to see people taking steps to free themselves by freeing their minds at first, and realizing they CAN do certain things, like speak up for themselves and take action to change their situation.
I'd like to see people do that not just in their workplaces, but in the larger society, as well. That's why I've been a member of the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism (CCDS), since it was foounded in December 1991. CCDS believes in organizing what we see as the Progressive Majority toward a democratic and socialist future for our country and, if other peoples in other lands do their own things toward similar goals, for the world, as well. We think only under a democratic socialism can we have a more just, more sustainable world, in which working people control both their own workplaces and the larger society, and we use green technology, green heating and cooling and transportation, for a greener world.
You folks have started something big at Occupy Boston, Occupy Wall Street, Occupy Chicago, Occupy Los Angeles, etc. It's now spreading all over the wolrd, and, of course, it started in Teheran, Tunis, Tahrir Square, Madison, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Oakland, etc. Maybe together we can make the bankers pay, keep people in their homes, make education free and build a more just society.
Let's discuss these things. Think about joining our efforts. i am not speaking for Boston CCDS. I am speaking for myself, but I am a member of Boston CCDS. I want everybody who believes there can and will be a better world to get together, though. You can do it through CCDS or you can do it in whatever other way you choose.
In solidarity,
Greg King
re: Toward a Better World
- user:Sage.Rad Yesterday 11:41 am
I'm a 30-something carpenter who works for the moment as a bioelectrochemical engineer on green fuels, studied sociology/anthropology, worked for human rights in Nepal.
I love Thoreau and individualism. I love thinking for myself, and I love people who do that too. I distrust anything that ends in "-ist" that has to do with politics. I distrust any dogma. I think that people are basically good and will help each other out happily, but also don't exactly call myself an anarchist or socialist or anything. Too much baggage. Look at the situation afresh. Go with intuition, employ reason but stay on the side of love. Take your time. Listen to all voices as if they might be right. Talk to people who disagree with you. Treat people with respect as long as possible.
I want to be at Occupy Boston more than I have been. I'm busy working, in the system that has kept me in debt, in a form of servitude, for too long even though I work hard all the time for myself and for others.
What I wish for the politics of Occupy Boston is for it to avoid the empty commodified forms of politics that we've been taught to think of as "politics". I want something vibrant and real, something that is real because it relates directly to daily life ... from smiling at strangers, talking with people you wouldn't otherwise talk with, taking radically new views on life and society, imagining a world that's not dominated from the top as this present one is. I imagine a world where economy is at a human scale, people can grow their own food, find a place to live on the land, breathe clean air, have amazing discussions and love each other well.
What I do NOT wish for is tables about socialist parties, pamphlets about Kropotkin, lifestyle hangout scenes -- either Bonnaroo-style or red-and-black Zapatista wannabe style, or anyone serving their egos. That may all have its place but in my opinion Dewey Square is not the place to be like that because it hurts the movement from appealing to the as-yet-undecided part of the exploited 99% who love the aesthetics of the 1%. There is time. Slowly space will open up. There are other spaces, too, in this world for all of that. I look to the Civil Rights Movement, and to Gandhi's movement to free India from the British. I want to rely on the simple idea of "You know it's wrong. If you look at it, you know it's wrong" as the motive power for the movement's success. The most basic human-level knowledge of the heart, that can move my grandma as well as a radical-leaning teenager.
I also think that a lot of what the movement can accomplish is through the process itself, not any stated end goals. By being radically democratic, by solving practical problems like electricity and sanitation in cooperative and inspiring ways, and by having a fun and inclusive atmosphere that makes people want to be a part of it. I think it can be contagious, like an epidemic of hope. Was this on topic? Maybe enough.
re: Toward a Better World
- user:gregking3 Today 4:11 am
You've got beautiful ideas, Sage.Rad. I hope we can all work together toward making this a better world, in which people are not homeless, hungry and unable to afford medical care, warm clothing or an education. I work full-time. I was down at Occupy Boston, once for a march and once for a visit. I find it all very encouraging. There is hope for our country and for the world.
re: Toward a Better World
- user:pcovery Today 4:58 am
Thanks for sharing your backgrounds! It's good to see this appeal to many people. It also gives me hope to hear some praise for cooperation after decades of hearing selfishness glorified. I hope we can persevere together.
Who would be interested in an international dance performance?
- user:Dance_against_Corruption Thursday, 6:50 am
Boston is filled with skilled dancers from diverse ethnic backgrounds. How would people feel about a show with performances that demonstrate different dances from around the world? As the Occupy movement has become global, I feel this would be fitting. Also, donations could be made to view the free performance and all proceeds would go to help buy supplies for protesters. What do people think about this?
re: Who would be interested in an international dance performance?
- user:redemmalives1 Thursday, 4:19 pm
I love this idea! I am plugged into the irish dance community... and haitian dance too! Let's bring them all together!
re: Who would be interested in an international dance performance?
- user:Dance_against_Corruption Thursday, 8:08 pm
That would be really awesome! I have a few contacts in modern dance, ballet and classical Indian dance. So right there I think we have a pretty good set up. I'll go to the camp tomorrow and see what can be done.
Statement of purpose draft
- user:DavidKeil Oct 14, 2011 8:23 am
The Strategy, Proposals, and Positions working group has been discussing drafting of a statement of the aims of Occupy Boston to present to the GA. Here is one short draft submitted. It consists of the headings from a statement issued by Occupy Madison. I think it's a good place to start. By putting its collective purposes in writing for the public, Occupy Boston can reach out to unions and community groups.
1. A fair and just economic system that benefits all humanity not solely the 1%, including but not limited to substantial tax increases on the 1% to fully fund the needs of the 99% such as job creation, education and social services.
2. End the wars and redirect military spending to social programs.
3. Real democracy that allows the voices of the 99% to heard and acted upon.
4. An end to the assault of the top 1% on workers' rights and repeal of all anti-union laws.
5. The end of institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia and attacks on immigrants.
6. Protection of the environment, a sustainable economy and an end to reckless pollution in order to preserve the planet for future generations.
re: Statement of purpose draft
- user:rkerver Oct 17, 2011 10:40 am
6. Protection of the environment, a sustainable economy and an end to reckless pollution in order to preserve the planet for future generations.
I'd like to see this statement of purpose expanded to include language specific to "enforcement of the endangered species act in acknowledgement of the 6th great mass extinction event now accelerating"
re: Statement of purpose draft
- user:sharksocks Oct 17, 2011 11:36 am
I understand the need to draft this sort of document but I think a statement of purpose needs to be a values statement. These read as very general demands. There is some values language within the demands, but we're better off articulating really clear demands as part of a unified "occupied" movement -- after we have a leadership body and clear voting structure. When people ask, "what do you want?" we should answer the question, "what kind of country do you want?"
No need to rush to demands. Let's be inclusive and tap into the anger and frustration of the 99%.
I support the spirit behind this initiative, but I think we should table it, and focus our energy in bringing more people into the fold and working with other occupied movements to build a organization.
re: Statement of purpose draft
- user:DavidKeil Oct 17, 2011 12:17 pm
I accept that a statement of values or general goals is more realistic than a full program or set of demands or proposals.
It is necessary to state values, goals, or purposes, however, in order to expand the movement and win new people to it. When people join to support a movement, they want to know its goals. The news media wants to know its goals. This is legitimate and inevitable. Goals and expansion are not against each other; they go together.
re: Statement of purpose draft
- user:AriaLItthous Oct 17, 2011 12:24 pm
A mission statement is more useful than a Statement of purpose because it asks the question, "How can we tell our mission has been accomplished?" In other words, "What are the benchmarks/goals?" I'd love your comments on the Roadmap.
re: Statement of purpose draft
- user:DavidKeil Oct 17, 2011 12:35 pm
Statement of purpose or mission statement are fine. I'm afraid that I find this wiki hard to navigate. Search, for example, doesn't turn up your roadmap, Aria. Can you refer me very directly? Is this roadmap submitted by a group or an individual?
If it is short, it may be a place to start. Have others signed on to it?
re: Statement of purpose draft
- user:AriaLItthous Oct 17, 2011 12:40 pm
http://occupyboston.wikispaces.com/message/view/Strategies%2C+Proposals%2C+Positions/44200402
It's posted in several places. There's a long thread at: ideas and reforms/strategies,p..p/discussions and a shorter one at ideas and reforms/scroll way down.../Thanks for checking it out.
re: Statement of purpose draft
- [[user:
]] 25whatever
Oh wait dont for get world peace, the end of world hunger, the world wide distruction of all fire arms, a puppy in every home, a fluffy cloud bed for every person.... how about this you get a job by putting your efforts into trying an entry level position and working hard. how about you donate your surplus money to social programs and let me keep my money, who do you think you are to tell me where my money should go? you wanna have more govenment money for social spending try having politicians work for free and be true public servants... how long will they stay in that position.... wait they wont they'll go back to their jobs as laywers and "banksters"
re: Statement of purpose draft
- [[user:
]] MikeKiss
Despite 25whatever's trolling, I'd like to point out the following:
Explicitly espousing tax policies implies a reliance on government force to achieve our goals. Don't forget that the government took (and destroyed) occupiers' property on Tues, October 11th by force. I think we need tax policy that is more fair, simpler and more transparent. Realistically the 1% who don't pay taxes now will clearly have to pay a fair share because everyone should. A progressive flat tax maybe?
Make 5: The end of institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, and oppression of all peoples.
6 should say something about a steady-state economy and economic metrics that favor biodiversity and a clean environment. We need an environmental policy wonk thread.
And 25whatever, I will block on any anti-2A proposal at any meeting I am in. You <3 the bill of rights or you don't.
re: Statement of purpose draft
- [[user:
]] rkerver
..."6 should say something about a steady-state economy and economic metrics that favor biodiversity and a clean environment. We need an environmental policy wonk thread." YES & YES transition economy is to steady-state, ie., no more growth; if anything a pull back (shrinking) of the economy in recognition that we're pulling too much out too quickly and have seriously endangered life:::: 200+ species going extinct EVERY DAY!!!!!
re: Statement of purpose draft
- [[user:
]] joehillisalive
I agree with the six things, however, it is still keeping within the current system and I feel that if anything close to this is achieved it will be short lived. We need to think about dismantling the capitalist system because it is rapacious and responsible for death and destruction worldwide.
re: Statement of purpose draft
- [[user:
]] MikeKiss
Joehillsalive: I think the capitalist system is on it's way out without our help. We need to build alternative systems to replace those that are doomed to failure.
re: Statement of purpose draft
- [[user:
]] jsager99
Look at this to find the approximate levels of support for your proposals.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h2b1NawJhhmdXBOm9RySsZRcAIOcl4jhhMBV--CiIwU/edit?hl=en_US
The higher the ratio, the more support. (Example: A ratio of 20 means that for every 20 people who would support the issue, 1 would not.)
My suggestions:
3. should be amended to include the end of corporate person-hood and the removal of the revolving doors in politics (Very high support levels).
7. Bank reforms that reinstate the Glass-Steagall regulations, banning the use of commercial banking money for investment. New regulations are to be created that hold bank executives accountable if they defraud their investors, both in civil court and criminal court. (Both suggestions have very high support levels and are necessary to prevent the next huge banking crash.)
Joshua Sager -- SarcasticLiberal.blogspot.com
re: Statement of purpose draft
wow so glad i didnt finish my "higher education" your all sitting here complaining how the "1%" needs to pay more in taxes yet your willing to say we need a flat tax rate... wow hows those BU economics classes going? have any of you thought about what actually creates the debt in this horrid capitalist society while contributing nothing... true i feel america shouldnt be the worlds police force pushing our political agenda on other people and sucking money out of an already hurting economy. however i dont see the point sitting on a field trashing the place and accomplishing little more than costing me, a actual tax paying resident, money... face the fact you people are the ones how have made and are making the situation worse... grow up get into places of power and make a change.
25whatever
Troll alert
re: Statement of purpose draft
I agree with sharksocks that an inclusive, short, "values" statwment is best as a Statement of Purpose. Under that general unifying statement we can split into groups supporting more specific demands and statements. I think it's essential to start with a SOP that welcomes all of the 99% and even our allies in the 1%. Something like cooperation and democracy.
re: Statement of purpose draft
And, naturally, I think my mission statement and goals (re-ordered so the inclusive goal is first) would make a great value statement :) but put it after setting out the problem, as in the Statement of Occupation...which I, naturally, edited. :)
re: Statement of purpose draft
This is what I propose - a simple and succint message that is broad enough to draw a large audience so that we can grow.
STATEMENT OF PURPOSE
OWS/OB & ALL Movements around the USA
"This is a non-partisan movement. We want to end corporate and financial influence on our government. Corporations should not have more of a voice and more rights than the American people. We demand greater accountability on Wall Street and greater responsiveness in Washington. We demand REAL change. We stand in solidarity with all the movements around the world protesting against corporate greed.
Let the voice of the 99% be heard!"
School field trip - advice/volunteers?
- user:squibbish Thursday, 6:21 pm
A friend of mine who is a student teacher is planning a field trip for his 8th grade class next Friday (and has support from his school to do this). They need guides to show them around OccupyBoston and answer questions from the kids.
Who has an interest in educating and/or knows people who could help?
They will be downtown in the morning. Please message me for more details.
Thanks, everyone!
re: School field trip - advice/volunteers?
- user:squibbish Thursday, 7:19 pm
To clarify -- not tomorrow morning, the morning of 10/28.
On Specific Policy Proposals
- user:MikeKiss Oct 17, 2011 4:16 pm
Dear 99% -
I am extremely proud to stand with you all in this movement. We have the potential to be the greatest force for justice and freedom the world has ever seen. I have been waiting my adult life for this conversation to begin and I am thrilled at its success thus far.
Please let us not delve so eagerly into the ridiculous distraction that is our current political system. "The System" has amazing inertia that cannot be shifted with the levers we have available to us. We need to co-create our own system. Last night the Worcester Police Department asked the protesters to leave by 10 at their own GA. They recognized the legitimacy of our process, at least in some small way.
The moment we advocate tax policy, we are implying a reliance on the coercive force of the government. Not paying taxes would be a great way to protest the wars. Guess what? The IRS has shot guns and they will take your money and it will be spent on the war. The way taxes work is problematic - let's talk about that before we start demanding they be used in a certain way.
I believe solutions are premature. If we are working to come up with solutions to satisfy the demands of the media, I say let them wait: http://radlife.org/radlife/?p=109
We need an explicit agreement on the PROBLEMS before we start crafting solutions. THAT would get some attention. It is also something we might be able to come up with by winter.
<3 Mike
PS: here is a relevant Bad Religion song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2a3q0nIsoM
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
I agree that we shouldn't feel pressured to rush to solutions. Let's build our power, our organization, and grow our numbers -- based on shared values and a shared recognition of the problems.
Solutions will come in time. It's early -- and we're not leaving.
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
Well the Tea Party didn't coalesce around positions or candidates for about a year.
But, the difference here is that the Occupy chapters are actually camped outside, in the weather, not just going on about their lives as the TP folks did, which would seem to put some priority around getting something done sooner rather than later.
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
Our most powerful asset is that we are not going anywhere. We need to agree what kind of world we want before we agree how to get there.
See this: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/11/hip_hop_artist_immortal_technique_no
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
Love that interview with tech.
Definitely agree that the "occupation" part of the occupy movement is critical. That doesn't mean we can't take a break for the winter, but we must come back stronger in the spring.
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
- user:sharksocks Wednesday, 10:18 am
it's impossible to tackle problems with education, health care, financial reform, or anything else until we get the money out of politics. we have pressing problems, and we can't address them until we have an effective method of coming to democratic consensus.
these policies might be a good first step:
1) #1) Use instant-runoff voting with a paper trail.
http://www.instantrunoff.com/why-use-irv
The two-party system has weakened our nation, as our founders predicted it would.
- 2) Minimum boundary districting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering#Minimum_isoperimetric_quotient
Voters choose their representatives, not vice versa.
- 3) Require that all elected officials disclose all income and all assets, as well as all contributions and all contributors. Income, assets, or contributions not declared shall be forfeited. Any official intentionally hiding income, assets, or contributions shall void her or his office.
and #4) Pass an amendment to the Constitution:
“Corporations are not people. They are property. As such, they have no rights. They have no right to free speech, nor any right to participate in the electoral process. Those rights belong to the American people."
Start at the source. It would also be something that people could do from home, so they didn't all have to make it down to Dewey Park every day. They could get petitions signed to get these proposals on the ballot.
What do people think about these?
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
- user:iWISHiHADaLAWNMOWER Wednesday, 9:36 pm
I like starting with these kinds of election reform after agreeing in a brief overall values statement as a Statement of Purpose. I envision different interest groups working in directions they feel passion for, once GA adopts a broad umbrella SOP. I'll be intereated in the election reform group(s).
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
Lawnmower: I like them. How do you recommend we start getting petitions together? Free Speech for People, has an on-line petition for #4.
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
yeah, i thought election reform was super reform, as the other reforms would happen easier once electoral reform happens. and it was the raison d'etre of the original adbusters campaign.
i actually thought about setting up booths or street teams that were not obviously occupy-affiliated, seeming all scientific and whatnot. most people would like it (from my tea party friends to greenies to libertarians, everyone seems to like them). then ask for their signature, try to get them to call their officials, etc. i'm sure some officials would be on board from the beginning.
re: On Specific Policy Proposals
reform = important*
one demand I think might actually be a really fun and good idea!
- user:redemmalives1 Thursday, 3:29 pm
So! I have an idea for what our demand could be. I think this demand would both call national attention to the dysfunction of a system that gives corporations the same rights as individuals and it would also popularize the idea of the people's mic and direct democracy... and who knows... maybe we'd get elected... So here it goes. I think our big demand should be worded as such! ...
"If corporations are people then so too are social movements! Therefore! We the 99% nominate the peoples' mic for president in 2012! Let the people occupy the executive branch! Regime change now!"
I'm serious! thoughts?
re: one demand I think might actually be a really fun and good idea!
- user:Stewart76 Thursday, 6:07 pm
cute...funny, but why do you single out the executive branch? i think obama is doing the best anyone could given the horrible situation he inherited. id prefer it if we occupied congress.
Buttons Buttons
- user:d3b0rah Thursday, 5:09 pm
Are there plans to have any more of those little red 99% buttons at the Information Tent? I was thrilled to get one on Wednesday and would love to donate for more of them to pass around to friends and family. Can we keep this going?
Goals
- user:OccupyReality Oct 16, 2011 3:07 am
My first observation is that to accomplish anything, this movement will need to appeal to our democratic system to effect political change. That means it needs to have *widespread support* for it's aims in our society, not just students and not just people on the far left or far right. You need to appeal to the "big middle" of society, so you better be in touch with that.
It also means that you need some kind of well formulated set of actionable goals. The mission has to be coherent, understandable and easily communicated, realistic in scope, and with broad democratic appeal. This implies a mission that is focused on a handful at best of desired changes that all have a single theme, that must appeal to the "big middle". Given where the country is today, I think that means a small set of economic and financial reforms.
For example: 1. Reforming the tax system to simplify it, eliminating all the unfair/complex loopholes and exemptions, but retaining the progressive nature 2. Enacting regulations similar to Dodd-Frank, to avoid excessive risk taking by financial firms. 3. Rolling back the Supreme Court ruling allowing corporations to spend unlimited money on political campaigns (Citizens United) 4. Ending US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, saving hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives
Big mistakes are: asking for radical change, like ending Capitalism; asking for everything you can think of as some endless wish list - save the whales, etc...
re: Goals
- user:Stewart76 Oct 16, 2011 6:38 am
There is actually a page on this wiki where these goals are already being discussed. You should try to post this there, it's a more active discussion...they just changed the name to the reforms page. I agree with you, though, on needing a short list and staying away from "radical" change. All four of your points have already been discussed...I think they are on everyones short list :)
re: Goals
- user:OccupyReality Oct 16, 2011 6:58 am
Ahhh, I am new here, thanks for then info, will do!
re: Goals
- user:Stewart76 Oct 16, 2011 8:32 am
It's now the ideas page...sorry they just changed it again
re: Goals
- user:OneKarma Oct 18, 2011 5:14 am
Lol yes stewart is pointing out our ever-changing format. Click 'ideas and reforms' in the nav
re: Goals
- user:redemmalives1 Thursday, 4:22 pm
LOL you think our system isn't COMPLETELY broken. ... LOL I couldn't disagree with this more.
re: Goals
- user:redemmalives1 Thursday, 4:22 pm
p.s. please be realistic. ;)
Occupy your house
- user:possibilist Wednesday, 9:11 am
I am about to make a fairly obvious suggestion to folks like me who feel sorry that they cannot be a full part of the occupation and are only able to come around sporadically and stay informed online...
The other day I put a sign on the front of my house which said, "We Are the 99%. Occupy." Again, fairly obvious and I'm sure many folks have already done similarly, but we need to make visible the overwhelming support the movement has from our communities. thanx
re: Occupy your house
- user:redemmalives1 Thursday, 4:18 pm
Great idea! Maybe people can also start holding general assemblies in their towns when/where they can! People can't camp out all the time! :)
The selfishness in Occupy Boston
- user:Liberateboston Oct 18, 2011 3:22 am
Occupy Boston Ruins Food Bank Fundraiser, Conservatives Step in With $3,700 Fund Drive
October 15, 2011
-By Warner Todd Huston
The Greater Boston Food Bank intended to have a fundraising event in Boston’s Dewey Square over the weekend of the 14th of October. It was to be called the “Greenway Mobile Food Fest” and was supposed to help raise funds to feed the poor and needy. But due to the tantrums being thrown by the Occupy Boston protestors the event had to be canceled.
Despite the selfishness of these pointless, clueless protesters, though, conservative bloggers stepped in and raised over $3,000 for the food bank. An important question is, where is the media on this story? Isn’t this a perfect sort of human-interest story that media types usually love?
The media should love this. It’s got clueless, uninformed, cretins hurting an organization that helps feed the needy. It has a more caring group rising to the challenge to help replace those lost donations. Perfect story, right?
Ah, except that it is conservatives in the role of good guy and the Old Media can’t have that, now can they?
Now, the anti-capitalists of the so-called “Occupy” events pretend that they are for the downtrodden, the low man on the totem pole. But in Boston the Occupy-Whatevers were more interested in their tantrums than in actually helping anyone. So, the food bank and the small-business festival associated with it lost out to those selfish whiners that claim to be for “the little man.” Nice, eh?
Conservatives to the rescue
Once Brandon Kiser of The Right Sphere found out about the loss the food bank was about to suffer at the hands of the Occupy-Whatevers, he sprang into action asking his readers and friends to donate to the food bank to help it make up at least some of the donations it was going to lose because of the protest. Kiser was shocked and gratified when his efforts and those of his conservative friends raised $3,700 for the food bank. And more will be raised as Kiser turned the donating over straight to the Greater Boston Food Bank.
So, at least the food bank didn’t lose everything. And isn’t it wonderful to see some real action during these protests for a change? Too bad nothing worthy is coming from the Occupy-Whatevers.
Sadly, it isn’t just the food bank that is losing out. The taxpayers are also in the hole thanks to these people.
On top the food banks loss, the city of Boston says that it will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to repair the public space infested by the protests and to pay for the overtime of government employees like Police and maintenance workers. A city already strapped for cash is going to be in even worse shape thanks to these clueless people.
I suppose it isn’t surprising that conservatives rose to this challenge in Boston. After all, we all know that conservatives donate more to charity anyway, don’t we?
Of course, you too can donate to help show these leftists that conservatives don’t just gather to whine and destroy public parks. We actually do worthy things to help our fellow man. You can donate to the Greater Boston Food Bank using this link: https://my.gbfb.org/donate.
re: The selfishness in Occupy Boston
- [[user:
]] sharksocks
Ignore this. There will be many attempts to paint OWS as a net negative to society. We should address them internally and make sure we are contributing to a better society even as we protest for change -- but we should ignore blatant propaganda like this.
What were the results of our own food drive?
re: The selfishness in Occupy Boston
- [[user:
]] Liberateboston
"Ignore this. There will be many attempts to paint OWS as a net negative to society."
1-Nowhere in the text did they mention OWS. Start reading for a change. They are talking to you, Occupy Boston. Don't try to turn this to wall street and run away from your responsibilities. Stop miss leading people! PLEASE....!
"We should address them internally and make sure we are contributing to a better society even as we protest for change"
2- Now that's a new one!!! So when you guys mess up, just like the government that you are harassing you get the privilege to only talk about it in closed spaces without "RISKING TO HEAR THE VOICE OF THOSE WHO HAD TO SUFFER FROM YOUR MESS"
"but we should ignore blatant propaganda like this"
3- Again, just like the people you call unfair in their process, you decide to pronounce this a "propaganda". Is there any way you could really stop your SCAM of wanting change. Right now, I find you much more a tyrant soul than those you fight.
No need to talk about a "food drive" where I had to comment the bad hygiene techniques to one of your servers who clearly did not take it well since he was just another one being mislead. Can I blame him? I guess not...
My comments are based on what I see and hear inside your camp. Not from behind a TV set. Remember this.
re: The selfishness in Occupy Boston
- [[user:
]] StargazerA
Occupy Boston has been feeding the homeless members of the movement every day just like we feed everyone else, not giving some minor charity contributions while indulging our own pleasures.
That said, I think it is great that we've raised more money than the food festival was going to raise just by pissing off conservatives: everyone benefits but them. The food bank gets more money than they'd get otherwise, the homeless members of Occupy Boston are still valuable community members and get tasty food, and the park is used for political protest and the betterment of the nation. What's not to like?
re: The selfishness in Occupy Boston
- [[user:
]] 25whatever
lets be real if anyone needs to stop the propaganda it OB hell thats what it is. no action just sucking up minutes in the news and seconds on the radio. oh good you helped 10, 20, 30 maybe 100 people? GBFB helps thousands, but to understand that you would have to look past your selfish face. but most "occupiers", freeloaders, have never experinces the trials of facing there children during the holidays with nothing. thank you to the GBFB for all they did for me and mine in years past... and to liberate boston, i will be making my annual dontation to this very honorable cause..
The real problem
- [[user:
]] ProtestThis
To the original poster
It is not about liberal vs conservative, it is not about a two party system. It is about the government representing the people who elected them. It is about corporations not being people.
Why does the Boston Food Bank exist? Lets think about dealing with the real problem, people don't have jobs so they can't afford to buy enough food.
re: The selfishness in Occupy Boston
- [[user:
]] LouJack22
So, Mr. LiberateBoston, if you are what your name portends then why are you playing a childish game of tit for tat with a movement that just began a month ago, with the greater intent to liberate humanity? Do you feel threatened? Are the people of Occupy Boston stealing your thunder by building a grass roots movement that is MUCH LARGER than yours? Are your feelings hurt? I can't believe your arguing about who gives more! And the Occupy movement is NOT an anti-capitalist movement, it's an anti-corprotocracy movement that is TRYING to re-establish DEMOCRACY and individual rights! Your argument is pathetic and reeks of insecurity. Maybe that's why you're trolling the grounds of the movement to nit pick and find things wrong about it instead of lending a hand, Mr. Liberator! Grow up man!
re: The selfishness in Occupy Boston
- [[user:
]] bugmagnet
It's pretty clear the author of that article doesn't care at all about the homeless and only about smearing OWS. If he bothered to do any research he would know that the homeless of the area are being fed daily by Occupy Boston.
re: The selfishness in Occupy Boston
- [[user:
]] redemmalives1
This person is against democracy and the true welfare of all people. Hold this juvenile rant in comparison to our assemblies and we'll see who is throwing a tantrum. The person who wrote this also demonstrates an utter lack of a social critique. This is because they don't acknowledge the fact that we are protesting the root causes of the homelessness and want he/she would see continue, only to be addressed with charity. How foolish you are sir... and I say sir because I can't imagine a woman being so ignorant.
Occupy Wall St - original song blues/funk
- user:cheaptubes Thursday, 12:34 pm
hey - please check out our original song for occupy wall st, its kind of blues/funk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHRSLv50PQs
Lyrics by Mike Foley All Music by Wes Davey
re: Occupy Wall St - original song blues/funk
- [[user:
]] cheaptubes
if you like it, please share it
A Brief "Who We Are" for OccupyBoston
- user:anonymous-observer Wednesday, 9:35 pm
There are so many discussions around pointed 'Statements of Purpose' (SOP) and lengthy 'Declarations of Occupation' (DOP), but we have not posted a simple 'Who We Are' - at least not that I can see.
Here is the one from NH - http://occupynh.org/who-we-are/
As for the SOP and the DOP, it is very unfortunate that Occupy Wall Street does not take this one very basic leadership stance to just develop a brief and very broad statement of purpose, and disseminate to ALL Occupy Movements since we are in this together and are all asking for the same thing - to end the influence of money and special interests in Washington.
re: A Brief "Who We Are" for OccupyBoston
- [[user:
]] pcovery
I like it, except for th Arab Spring tactics, which I think is too broad a reference. It would mean gun battles to some people.
Saving Our Community WEDNESDAY Night
- user:AngelaGiudice Wednesday, 11:34 am
CORRECTION: Saving Our Community - A Retrospective of Organizing in Roxbury is TONIGHT, Wednesday, Oct. 19th, from 7-9pm, at Hibernian Hall, Dudley Square, Roxbury Sorry for the mistake from Tuesday Night Announcements. Peace, Angela
Great little Excerpt from the Washington Post
- user:Occupy_Boston Wednesday, 8:45 am
3) Banks are pressuring Democrats over their support of "Occupy Wall Street," report Robin Bravender and Anna Palmer: "After the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee sent a recent email urging supporters to sign a petition backing the wave of Occupy Wall Street protests, phones at the party committee started ringing. Banking executives personally called the offices of DCCC Chairman Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) and DCCC Finance Chairman Joe Crowley (D-N.Y.) last week demanding answers, three financial services lobbyists told POLITICO. 'They were livid,' said one Democratic lobbyist with banking clients. The execs asked the lawmakers: 'What are you doing? Do you even understand some of the things that they’ve called for?' said another lobbyist with financial services clients who is a former Democratic Senate aide."
re: Great little Excerpt from the Washington Post
- [[user:
]] Occupy_Boston
And a couple others from the same post:
2) We need to better regulate "Too Big to Fail" banks, writes John Huntsman: "More than three years after the crisis and the accompanying bailouts, the six largest American financial institutions are significantly bigger than they were before the crisis, having been encouraged to snap up Bear Stearns and other competitors at bargain prices. These banks now have assets worth over 66% of gross domestic product--at least $9.4 trillion, up from 20% of GDP in the 1990s. There is no evidence that institutions of this size add sufficient value to offset the systemic risk they pose. The major banks' too-big-to-fail status gives them a comparative advantage in borrowing over their competitors thanks to the federal bailout backstop. This funding subsidy amounts to roughly 50 basis points, or one-half of a percentage point in today's market."
3) The falling share of labor in the economy is driving public discontent, writes Peter Orszag: "In Economics 101, students learn that the share of national income received by labor stays roughly constant with the share received by capital. This is the first of 'Kaldor’s stylized facts,' articulated half a century ago by the Cambridge economist Nicholas Kaldor. Recent experience betrays this lesson. Over the past two decades -- and especially since about 2000 -- the share of national income that flows into wages and other kinds of worker compensation has been plummeting in various countries. Labor share normally bounces around over the business cycle, but given how long the decline has lasted, it can’t be dismissed as cyclical. And this partly explains the kind of anger and frustration that is fueling the Occupy Wall Street movement worldwide."
re: Great little Excerpt from the Washington Post
- [[user:
]] rkerver
PRIMARY DEMAND: Use anti-trust laws to break up the godzilla banks: Goldman Sachs, Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citibank, and Wells Fargo. http://www.opednews.com/Diary/Grand-Theft-America-by-Vi-Ransel-090422-425.html Unleashed on society by the deregulation orgy of the 80-90's culminating in repeal of Glass-Steagall, and subsequent buildup of the derivatives market, including mortgage-backed-asset class.
KILL THE GODZILLA BANKS! Back 'em into a corner and take a legislative machine gun to them.
Bank of America -- Direct Action
- user:wooriginal Oct 7, 2011 9:19 am
We're organizing a direct action against Bank of America.
WHAT WE WANT TO DO
March down to BOA headquarters with the full protest march behind us Close our accounts one by one as the protest goes on outside BOA headquarters Keep a running tally of how much money we pulled out of BOA Publicize the event to Media to try to turn it into a feature of all the national marches. WHY Because Bank of America is too big, holding nearly $2.3 trillion in assets (18% of GDP). Because it is our money, and we can move it to local institutions that won't take enormous risks that jeopardize the economy. Because it is a direct action that will resonate across the country and will help continue to draw attention and supporters to the Occupy movement. WHAT TO DO
If you are a BOA customer and are interested in joining us, please send me a message (click on my username).
No date has been set for the action. Right now, we're just building support and starting to organize.
WHAT WE WANT TO DO
- user:OneKarma Oct 10, 2011 3:15 am
bump
is this action being coordinated with NY et al?
WHY
- user:wooriginal Oct 11, 2011 8:42 pm
I will be taking this to the Direct Action committee soon and perhaps to the GA.
WHAT TO DO
- user:fshalts Oct 12, 2011 8:10 am
This is a great idea! I'm definitely interested in participating, as I've been planning to leave Bank of America for a very long time. From a practical perspective, I think this action needs to be planned at least a week ahead of time, because closing a bank account requires making sure that you have no pending charges in your account. This means that someone interested in taking part would need to stop charging things on their debit/credit card for at least a few days so that all charges can go through and you can close your account outright. I'd also suggest we put together a list of local banks that people could go use as an alternative to B of A.
No date has been set for the action. Right now, we're just building support and starting to organize.
- user:kate8383 Oct 12, 2011 8:30 am
Great Idea we need to get this out to the media and to the public
re: Bank of America -- Direct Action
- user:MA-NH Oct 12, 2011 9:29 am
I'm ready. But point well taken about needing time for new acct to order new checks, set up direct deposits with work, etc. Think occupy Wall Street said "on or before" Nov 5 (a Saturday) as "Bank Transfer Day"...
re: Bank of America -- Direct Action
- user:lucrativelemons Oct 12, 2011 6:10 pm
I think it would be excellent to hold info groups (maybe through free school university) explaining the benefits of being a member of a credit union rather than bank of america (or other large banks) maybe putting together fact sheets and lists of local credit unions and helping people understand the steps they need to take to make the switch. (also try to hold more than one meeting about this subject so that most people can attend)
re: Bank of America -- Direct Action
- user:wooriginal Oct 13, 2011 7:14 am
7 Simple Steps To Move Your Checking Account
- 1. Open Your New Account*
In most cases, you should be able open a checking account with an initial deposit of $25 to $100. At a credit union, you’ll also become a member and co-owner at the same time.
- 2. Order New Checks and an ATM/Debit Card*
These typically arrive within 1 to 2 weeks. You should also consider applying for a credit card from your new local bank or credit union at the same time.
- 3. Ask Your Employer to Reroute Your Direct Deposit*
When you open your new account, ask the bank or credit union for a direct deposit authorization form that includes your new account information. Give this form to your employer and anyone else who makes direct deposits to your account. It may take one or more pay cycles for the change to be made, so keep your old checking account open and watch for the switch.
- 4. Contact Companies that Direct-Debit Your Account*
Using your last bank statement, make a list of any businesses that you’ve authorized to directly debit your account. Ask your new bank or credit union for an automatic payments authorization form that includes your new account information. Send this to the businesses on your list.
- 5. Set-up Online Bill Paying for Your New Account*
If you like to pay bills online, set up bill payment information for your new account. Also, stop any automatic, recurring payments you have established through your old account.
- 6. Close Your Old Account*
Once you have started receiving direct deposits into your new account and are sure that there are no outstanding checks or automatic debits that need to clear, close your old account. Warning: do not just withdraw the last dollar and assume the account will fade away on its own. Your old big bank may start charging you fees for having an empty or inactive checking account. Instead, follow the bank’s procedure for closing out the account.
re: Bank of America -- Direct Action
- [[user:
]] wooriginal
Occupy Boston is now participating in the Move Your Money / Bank Transfer Day direct action.
Full details here: https://occupyboston.wikispaces.com/Bank+Transfer+Day
re: Bank of America -- Direct Action
...with directions to the local credit union.
re: Bank of America -- Direct Action
Whether you decide to take a direct action as a group or not I would urge all those involved to look into moving their money from the major banks.
Credit Unions are a fantastic alternative as they are owned by the depositors in the bank rather than shareholders.
You can find a credit union in your area by going to the CSCU which lists Credit Unions nationwide.
Donations for Occupy Boston?
- user:tentonfenton Oct 17, 2011 4:02 pm
Would like to support everyone down at Occupy Boston via food, $$, etc. What's the best way to do that?
re: Donations for Occupy Boston?
- user:sharksocks Oct 17, 2011 8:39 pm
Not 100% sure but on http://occupyboston.com/ there is a donation button in the right sidebar. In terms of food and other material goods, you might try visiting the information tent to see what the needs are.
Thanks!
re: Donations for Occupy Boston?
- [[user:
]] Occupy_Boston
http://occupyboston.wikispaces.com/Logistics
This page has updated lists of necessities. And on the front page of the occupyboston.com (or the home page of this wiki) there is a button do donate financially.
Bernanke coming to conf. at Fed tomorrow
- user:lexkul Oct 17, 2011 7:33 am
FYI,
FED CONFERENCE - DAY ONE: The Federal Reserve Bank of Boston holds the first day of its annual research conference. This year's is focused on "long-term effects of the Great Recession." Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke is slated to address the conference at 12:30 p.m. Other panels on the first day include discussions about the potential permanent effects of the recession, shifts in economic attitudes, the effects on the labor market, and the effects on the housing market. (Tuesday, 7 a.m. - 5:30 p.m., 600 Atlantic Ave., Boston)
re: Bernanke coming to conf. at Fed tomorrow
- user:sharksocks Oct 17, 2011 7:41 am
Definite opportunity that we could demonstrate around. I think the messaging around any demonstration should be around holding wall st accountable, putting people over profits, bailing out the public and not the banks, and other highly populist messages like that. "End the Fed" and other complex and esoteric messages are extremely hard to relate to, and are more ideologies than solutions. It's hard for me to relate to messages around end the fed, or even imagine what that actually means. I think most people don't even understand what the fuck the fed does--included many people in the occupy movement.
I don't mean to "dumb down" the movement and welcome any pushback.
Good find.
re: Bernanke coming to conf. at Fed tomorrow
- user:Anandi99 Oct 17, 2011 9:22 am
Im with you eli-f One thing that is so important as we move to demands or policy phase....we need to be specific on our demands for accountability in financial sector. And so important we keep talking re-instatement of Glass-Steagall act which separates banks from speculation....also focus on making money available for small and mid size businesses which will stimulate economy and also appeal to business community. SOLIDARITY AND PEACE...
re: Bernanke coming to conf. at Fed tomorrow
- user:possibilist Oct 17, 2011 3:12 pm
Is someone going to bring this idea as a proposal to tonight's GA? This is a great protest idea which allows us to focus our energies directly on the policy makers and has potential for strong media visibility... (I am also psyched for it because of it's midday time is one I can line up with my current crazy schedule of work and caring for a sick loved one, which is making me miss far too many opportunities to be a part of this incredibly important movement and all you the wonderful energy of you kickass individuals...)
If an action is planned for this, please update the plan on this converstaion link if the main website doesn't put it on its frontpage. THANKS
re: Bernanke coming to conf. at Fed tomorrow
- user:sharksocks Oct 17, 2011 8:38 pm
Did anyone bring up a proposal tonight? I didn't hear anything, but I came quite late.
We really need to build up our organization, so we can respond to opportunities like this promptly and in a coordinated fashion.
Oh well. Let's learn from this.
Marine yells at cops in NY - Best thing I've ever seen.
- user:solidstates Oct 17, 2011 2:57 pm